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  1. #13

    Re: Democrats lying again?



    Curveball was not the extent of the "intel" at all, though the MSM would like one to believe that. It was one piece of second or third hand intelligence that buttressed the already-established widespread consensus (of the Western world's intelligence community). The links above provided by Dade detail this fact. The media blew this up as big as it could for ratings and to fit a partisan agenda, but there never has been any proof whatsoever Drumheller is telling the truth and Tenet is lying about what everyone knew and when. One can certainly argue that the CIA gave way more weight to this piece of intelligence than it should have under the circumstances, especially regarding Powell's testimony, but that is about all one can say. Not that the consensus opinion in any way relied on that piece or that anyone knew that piece to be fabricated at the time.

    http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/v...ory.asp?id=555

    The reason everyone believed that Saddam had WMDs is because he wanted everyone to believe he had WMDs. It is as simple as that.

    He acted like he had WMDs. His generals believed he had WMDs. He had the ability to make WMDs. WMDs are valuable. For years he refused to cooperate with UN inspectors. He admitted after being captured that he behaved like he had WMDs because he was worried about looking weak to Iran.

    There is no evidence whatsoever Bush "lied" about WMDs. None. Claiming so indicates that the person making the claim either a) is ignorant of the facts, or b) is ignorant of the meaning of the word "lie." One can quibble about the use of the rhetorical phrase of "no doubt" when really meaning "everyone agrees/believes," but that rhetoric is used all the time, from global warming to the affects of the stimulus to who is the best football player, and it was used by others (including Democrats) regarding Iraq WMDs.

    Nor is "no new taxes" (as earlier mentioned) a "lie" because it was made as a promise (that was eventually not kept). It was not a knowingly false statement when stated/promised.

    A "lie" is saying something known at that time to be untrue.




  2. #14
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    Re: Democrats lying again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Do you think Hussein had them destroyed? Of course not, he still had them. That is where the chemical weapons in Syria came from.
    Splitting hairs.

    Point is he didn't have any at the time Powell said he did.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  3. #15

    Re: Democrats lying again?

    If I were to address healthcare of the uninsured I'd handle it as a discrete issue. I wouldn't reconfigure a 6th of the economy.

    I find obamas premise that when people lose their insurance as a 'small minority' is ridiculous when that number far exceeds the beneficiaries of the program. Besides if you look at the people he is trying to get insurance to, a majority of those people only lack insurance for a few months. Switching jobs, etc. just like how even in a booming economy there is structural unemployment. I am an Economist going into insurance work and I do not see how obamacare addresses the issue of rising prices, in fact I think it will get worse.




  4. #16
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    Re: Democrats lying again?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Splitting hairs.

    Point is he didn't have any at the time Powell said he did.
    It isn't splitting hairs and while I could remember the time line wrong the time between Powell's contention and the invasion was plenty for the chemical weapons to be moved to Syria, which possibility was reported at the time.

    Syria now has them despite not having a program of note to develop them. I don't think it is a coincidence.

    And this defense from a guy against invading Iraq. Despite my belief he had WMDs I did not see him as a threat to use them against us.




  5. #17
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    Re: Democrats lying again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    It isn't splitting hairs and while I could remember the time line wrong the time between Powell's contention and the invasion was plenty for the chemical weapons to be moved to Syria, which possibility was reported at the time.

    Syria now has them despite not having a program of note to develop them. I don't think it is a coincidence.

    And this defense from a guy against invading Iraq. Despite my belief he had WMDs I did not see him as a threat to use them against us.
    Yellow cake uranium.

    Powell said they had it. They didn't. They didn't even have the equipment to make it.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  6. #18
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    Re: Democrats lying again?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Yellow cake uranium.

    Powell said they had it. They didn't. They didn't even have the equipment to make it.
    I don't believe the claim was Iraq developed yellow cake, but that they had obtained it. They may or may not have had it, if they did it too could have made its way to Syria or perhaps it is buried in the Iraqi dessert somewhere.

    I never claimed Iraq had uranium of any kind, I simply noted the claim that they had WMDs was true. It was in response to this:

    No "lie" this administration has told has been bigger than Bush's Iraq WMDs.




  7. #19
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    Re: Democrats lying again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    I don't believe the claim was Iraq developed yellow cake, but that they had obtained it. They may or may not have had it, if they did it too could have made its way to Syria or perhaps it is buried in the Iraqi dessert somewhere.

    I never claimed Iraq had uranium of any kind, I simply noted the claim that they had WMDs was true. It was in response to this:
    I get what you're saying. I still think it's splitting hairs.

    There was evidence to suggest that Iraq got rid of a lot of their WMD's, per the UN sanctions.

    Whether they gave it to Syria, never had it or dumped it in the Euphrates River, they didn't have it when Powell went to the UN and said otherwise.

    As stated earlier, I don't think that was a "lie" as in they knew for a fact it was otherwise. I think they fell victim to confirmation bias, focusing on the intel they wanted to be true and ignoring ALL of the evidence.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  8. #20
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    Re: Democrats lying again?

    ooops
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 01-08-2014 at 12:49 PM.
    UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU.




  9. #21
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    Re: Democrats lying again?

    It would be interesting to do a study of the Euphrates River to see exactly how of it is polluted and many chemicals are in the river. My agency at APG specializes on that and I worked on a study we did for the bay. A foundation wanted to know how much of the bay was polluted and where the chemicals came from and which chemicals were in it. Over 47% of the bay was polluted and that was in Sep 91 and they came from all the tributaries and from all the plants along those tributaries including one of our own plants on APG. There was a big trial on it too.

    BTW, did you know that Iraq had a Nuclear Center. I worked down the hall from nuclear physicists that were sent over to sweep it for radiation. It was clean but if they didn't have any nukes, they sure were planning on getting them and Israelies jets knocked out a nuke reactor in 81. Just google it for date, pics and details.

    ____________________________________________________________
    Israel's Wars & Operations: Operation Opera - Raid on Iraqi Nuclear Reactor

    (June 7, 1981)
    ____________________________________________________________




    It's quite possible for Sodom to send the chemicals to Syria, the very ones they recently used on their own people and dump some in the river. He sent jets to Iran of all places when we invaded him.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 01-07-2014 at 03:08 AM.
    UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU.




  10. #22
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    Re: Democrats lying again?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Splitting hairs.

    Point is he didn't have any at the time Powell said he did.
    HR: Actually he did have some, but they were old and not very effective. I can't prove this to you, but believe me, have spoken personally to guys who went in and brought the items back well after the "main" war effort.

    What he DID NOT have were the modern facilities and mobile labs that were reported.




  11. #23
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    Re: Democrats lying again?

    They did have a Nuclear Center and as I posted above, some of our physicists were sent there after the invasion to sweep it for radiation before anyone could enter it. There was none. Don't know how modern it was but they had one plus a
    modern nuke reactor the Israelies blew up in 81. They certainly planned on getting nukes.

    Again, do a pollution study of the Euphrates River to see how many if any chemicals were dumped in.
    UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU.




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