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  1. #151
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    Re: The 2014 Ravens Draft Thread



    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Ravens_87 View Post
    someone needs to explain to me how the team eschews a O Tackle in the first after a season in which they gave up 48 sacks and averaged 3.1 yards/carry and both Starting Tackles on this horrible line are Free agents...I mean who is Wagner and why does anyone think he can start. Sounds like Gino Gradkowski part 2.

    wide receiver is more luxury less need. I seem to remember of plays where receiver s were open deep and Joe couldn't connect.
    all valid points. WRs are exciting, OL is boring.




  2. #152
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    Re: The 2014 Ravens Draft Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    all valid points. WRs are exciting, OL is boring.
    It's also a bit of chicken and egg debate...

    A nice OL can give Joe a couple extra seconds, but if the WRs are still struggling to get open, a decent pass rusher will eventually get there anyway.

    A nice WR can get open quicker, but if he's got a poor OL anyway, it's going to be Derrick Mason all over again, at best. Short, quick out routes that don't stretch the field.
    .
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    “When I think of a Baltimore Raven - we go in there, we take your lunch box, we take your sandwich, we take your juice box, we take your applesauce, and we take your spork and we break it. And we leave you with an empty lunch. That’s the Baltimore Raven way.” - Steve Smith Sr.


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  3. #153
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    Re: The 2014 Ravens Draft Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Ravens_87 View Post
    someone needs to explain to me how the team eschews a O Tackle in the first after a season in which they gave up 48 sacks and averaged 3.1 yards/carry and both Starting Tackles on this horrible line are Free agents...I mean who is Wagner and why does anyone think he can start. Sounds like Gino Gradkowski part 2.

    wide receiver is more luxury less need. I seem to remember of plays where receiver s were open deep and Joe couldn't connect.
    There is hope for the offensive line with the possibility of Monroe with an offseason and training camp in the program, the return of KO, Gino with another year/competition, and a new RT.




  4. #154

    Re: The 2014 Ravens Draft Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Ravens_87 View Post
    someone needs to explain to me how the team eschews a O Tackle in the first after a season in which they gave up 48 sacks and averaged 3.1 yards/carry and both Starting Tackles on this horrible line are Free agents...I mean who is Wagner and why does anyone think he can start. Sounds like Gino Gradkowski part 2.

    wide receiver is more luxury less need. I seem to remember of plays where receiver s were open deep and Joe couldn't connect.
    Completely disagree that wide receiver is more luxury than need. It's a massive need. Give Joe some targets that can get open quickly, and you'll see him on the ground a lot less. When defenses have to worry about guys on the outside that can get open quickly, they won't be able to compress the box as much.




  5. #155
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    Re: The 2014 Ravens Draft Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mizerooskie View Post
    Completely disagree that wide receiver is more luxury than need. It's a massive need. Give Joe some targets that can get open quickly, and you'll see him on the ground a lot less. When defenses have to worry about guys on the outside that can get open quickly, they won't be able to compress the box as much.
    This is how Peyton hid poor OLs in Indy for years. He had WRs who got open easily, so he was able to get rid of it before the pass rush got to him.
    .
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    “When I think of a Baltimore Raven - we go in there, we take your lunch box, we take your sandwich, we take your juice box, we take your applesauce, and we take your spork and we break it. And we leave you with an empty lunch. That’s the Baltimore Raven way.” - Steve Smith Sr.


    Call me a Special Teams coach again. I dare you! I double dare you, MFer!




  6. #156
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    Re: The 2014 Ravens Draft Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Ravens_87 View Post
    someone needs to explain to me how the team eschews a O Tackle in the first after a season in which they gave up 48 sacks and averaged 3.1 yards/carry and both Starting Tackles on this horrible line are Free agents...I mean who is Wagner and why does anyone think he can start. Sounds like Gino Gradkowski part 2.

    wide receiver is more luxury less need. I seem to remember of plays where receiver s were open deep and Joe couldn't connect.
    I agree O line should be the #1 priority and I think it will be. Doesn't mean that if we draft a guy in the first round he'll just plug in and help the line, however.

    As for Wagner, he was - depending whose ratings service you use - the #1 LT prospect in the NCAA going into his senior year. Yes, ahead of all those guys like Joeckel, etc. The Fisher guy from Central Michigan was like barely top 50. A lot happens in one year, I guess. I don't know what caused Wagner to drop in the draft, but he has talent. Of course, the odds of our current offensive coaching staff getting that talent out of him are slim.

    Anyway, I agree that the O line has to be the top priority, because without it you don't have a run game OR a passing game. No offense of any kind. Whereas one receiver is at best a third of your passing game.

    Also you are right about Joe missing open WR's, particularly on the vaunted "deep ball" he's supposedly so good at. I'm willing to bet that on throws over 40 yards this year he underthrew the ball by 5 yards more often than he hit the receiver in stride.




  7. #157

    Re: The 2014 Ravens Draft Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    I agree O line should be the #1 priority and I think it will be. Doesn't mean that if we draft a guy in the first round he'll just plug in and help the line, however.

    As for Wagner, he was - depending whose ratings service you use - the #1 LT prospect in the NCAA going into his senior year. Yes, ahead of all those guys like Joeckel, etc. The Fisher guy from Central Michigan was like barely top 50. A lot happens in one year, I guess. I don't know what caused Wagner to drop in the draft, but he has talent. Of course, the odds of our current offensive coaching staff getting that talent out of him are slim.

    Anyway, I agree that the O line has to be the top priority, because without it you don't have a run game OR a passing game. No offense of any kind. Whereas one receiver is at best a third of your passing game.

    Also you are right about Joe missing open WR's, particularly on the vaunted "deep ball" he's supposedly so good at. I'm willing to bet that on throws over 40 yards this year he underthrew the ball by 5 yards more often than he hit the receiver in stride.
    It also comes down to positional value. I think the Ravens will lock up Eugene Monroe, so that likely solves your LT problem. You've also got Yanda locking down RG. Beyond that, there is certainly a lot of uncertainty at LG, C, and RT... you have to think KO fits in somewhere, probably at LG. As you've pointed out, Rick Wagner entered his senior year as a surefire 1st rounder, but dropped after other guys rose up and he had a bad Senior Bowl/draft season. The guy is a much better player than your average 5th rounder.

    We can debate exactly how much faith the FO has in him but Wagner has been used quite a bit this year as an extra OL and did well in that role. He was exceptional in the preseason at LT, and in week 1 when Oher went down Wagner was inserted at RT as the first option--when they could have maybe moved KO out to RT and put someone else in at LG. All of these things show me that Wagner is going to be a factor at RT, and probably the leader in the competition above just about anybody we could draft this year.

    So basically you're down to a backup RT and C. You don't spend a 1st rounder on a center. The team could probably get the draft's best center Travis Swanson in the 2nd or possibly even the 3rd (Peter Konz, who was a better prospect than Swanson, dropped to the bottom of the 2nd a few years ago.) Then you get your backup RT with one of your mid-round compensatory picks.

    So, back to positional value. The dropoff between the draft's best center and 2nd best center is a lot smaller than between Sammy Watkins or Mike Evans (top-15 caliber players) and the next tier of guys. So, best case scenario, the Ravens ought to be looking at adding a WR who could potentially totally revamp the offense in round 1 and a good OL prospect or two in rounds 2-5. That is a better draft than taking an OL prospect in round 1 and a WR later.




  8. #158
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    Re: The 2014 Ravens Draft Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Ravens_87 View Post
    someone needs to explain to me how the team eschews a O Tackle in the first after a season in which they gave up 48 sacks and averaged 3.1 yards/carry and both Starting Tackles on this horrible line are Free agents....
    OT is definitely a needd, but you just don't take one in the first round for the hell of it. If there isn't a OT worth drafting at that value pick, then the team isn't going to reach. It depends who is still on the board when the Ravens hit the clock.




  9. #159
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    Re: The 2014 Ravens Draft Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Ravens_87 View Post
    someone needs to explain to me how the team eschews a O Tackle in the first after a season in which they gave up 48 sacks and averaged 3.1 yards/carry and both Starting Tackles on this horrible line are Free agents...I mean who is Wagner and why does anyone think he can start. Sounds like Gino Gradkowski part 2.

    wide receiver is more luxury less need. I seem to remember of plays where receiver s were open deep and Joe couldn't connect.
    White frankly, no center tis year is worth a pick in the top two round, and picking at. 16 the value isn't there for any lineman other than an LT. If we lose Monroe LT is instantly the biggest need and there is some good prospects we could have at 16.

    But you can get good right tackles in the second and third rounds




  10. #160
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    Re: The Case for a Defense-heavy Draft

    For those concerned about Evans and Jordan Matthews and their inability to consistently separate...the same folks said the same things about Alshon Jeffery.

    I think most would agree that the SEC has the best defenders in college. Yet, these two receivers have consistently produced against that top tiered competition for multiple seasons.

    Additionally, I'd love to have a guy who can separate consistently from DB's, but how often so receivers get completely open, uncontested looks in the NFL? Unless it is broken coverage or a comeback route on a defender who is playing FAR too deep...it rarely happens.

    My point is now - as it was with Alshon Jeffery - having a guy who knows how to make tough catches in traffic with guys all over him and all around him is such an underrated characteristic for receivers.




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  11. #161
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    Re: The 2014 Ravens Draft Thread

    Say we cut , redo and extend contracts to get money for free agency. We resign Monroe and Pitta right away. Then grab a Free agent Center. I know a lot loves Mack, but I'll take anybody who can make the line calls. If we can get LT and CENTER before draft, WR or TE could be our top priority come draft. Which would be nice. If Waktins would fall, that would be a trip back to playoffs.
    But 2 questions. One, if he is the best can't miss WR , you think someone crazy will move way up to get him like ATL did for Jones. And last yr the Rams jumped up for Charm City's own Austin.
    Second, do any doubt that our FO can draft a WR or lineman. I know the track record. And we hit a lot on D. But Offense, anybody worried?
    I'm pissed off for greatness!!




  12. #162
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    Re: The Case for a Defense-heavy Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    For those concerned about Evans and Jordan Matthews and their inability to consistently separate...the same folks said the same things about Alshon Jeffery.

    I think most would agree that the SEC has the best defenders in college. Yet, these two receivers have consistently produced against that top tiered competition for multiple seasons.

    Additionally, I'd love to have a guy who can separate consistently from DB's, but how often so receivers get completely open, uncontested looks in the NFL? Unless it is broken coverage or a comeback route on a defender who is playing FAR too deep...it rarely happens.

    My point is now - as it was with Alshon Jeffery - having a guy who knows how to make tough catches in traffic with guys all over him and all around him is such an underrated characteristic for receivers.




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    Can someone explain to me what evans has that matthews doesn't? I cant see how ones a top 15 guy and the other is borderline 1st. Can't wrap my head around it

    I loved Alshon, and I'd happily trade back from one or up from 2 to land Matthews, or Allen Robinson for that matter, but I think I'd vomit if we take Evans at 16




  13. #163
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    Re: The 2014 Ravens Draft Thread

    1. Watkins
    2. Lee
    3. Matthews
    4. Robinson




  14. #164
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    Re: The Case for a Defense-heavy Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    For those concerned about Evans and Jordan Matthews and their inability to consistently separate...the same folks said the same things about Alshon Jeffery.

    I think most would agree that the SEC has the best defenders in college. Yet, these two receivers have consistently produced against that top tiered competition for multiple seasons.

    Additionally, I'd love to have a guy who can separate consistently from DB's, but how often so receivers get completely open, uncontested looks in the NFL? Unless it is broken coverage or a comeback route on a defender who is playing FAR too deep...it rarely happens.

    My point is now - as it was with Alshon Jeffery - having a guy who knows how to make tough catches in traffic with guys all over him and all around him is such an underrated characteristic for receivers.




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    You are so right. Remember all those reports about Jeffrey not hitting whatever stupid metric that he was supposed hit in the 40? I couldn't believe that he was dropping over nothing and he's certainly proved it this year.

    Evans will be the exact same way. He's a big body guy who knows how to catch in traffic. He's got the footwork to be on monster running up the sideline up the field.

    Mathews isn't at the same level but he's a solid prospect who needs to get stronger. NFL conditioning and hard work could do that. I wouldn't take him before the 3rd but at that point he would be interesting.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  15. #165
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    Re: The Case for a Defense-heavy Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    You are so right. Remember all those reports about Jeffrey not hitting whatever stupid metric that he was supposed hit in the 40? I couldn't believe that he was dropping over nothing and he's certainly proved it this year.

    Evans will be the exact same way. He's a big body guy who knows how to catch in traffic. He's got the footwork to be on monster running up the sideline up the field.

    Mathews isn't at the same level but he's a solid prospect who needs to get stronger. NFL conditioning and hard work could do that. I wouldn't take him before the 3rd but at that point he would be interesting.
    the third! Are you serious? Everywhere has him as a borderline 1st




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