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  1. #31
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    Mar 2012
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    Re: Ron Winter overrules himself.. twice?!



    The Jimmy Smith PI was the 1st. The player runs into him, turns and falls down. The End zone ref signals incomplete and the side ref throws the flag. That guy was the point of many of the bad calls. On the early long throw to Torrey Smith it looked like the safety got there early. He still should have held on to it.




  2. #32

    Re: Ron Winter overrules himself.. twice?!

    Quote Originally Posted by stevez51 View Post
    The Jimmy Smith PI was the 1st. The player runs into him, turns and falls down. The End zone ref signals incomplete and the side ref throws the flag. That guy was the point of many of the bad calls. On the early long throw to Torrey Smith it looked like the safety got there early. He still should have held on to it.
    1- as soon as I saw Ron Winters face on the jumbo screen, I said UT-OH! This officiating crew definitely put the Ravens behind the eight ball with those two early penalties! Sideline judge #97 was terrible and that's being kind!
    2- as bad as the officiating was, the Ravens' play calling by offensive and defensive coordinators and head coach was equally as bad!
    3-Joe's performance reminded me of last season's Denver game... Not the playoff one but the home game where Denver embarrassed the Ravens!




  3. #33
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    Mar 2012
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    Re: Ron Winter overrules himself.. twice?!

    That sideline ref missed everything his way. The PI, the Pitta catch, etc.... Was he the one who called Oher for the offsides..???




  4. #34

    Re: Ron Winter overrules himself.. twice?!

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    This.

    To even hint at bad officiating is whistling past the graveyard.

    This team is flat out bad.
    Huh? Wrong thread?




  5. #35
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    Re: Ron Winter overrules himself.. twice?!

    Quote Originally Posted by ccoolahan14 View Post
    Just gonna call a spade a spade (and probably get killed for telling the truth) but Winter's crew hates the Ravens. I knew we were in for trouble when I heard mid-week that he was doing the game. Every call/reverse call was a test case to find out what they believed they could get away with to screw the Ravens. The defensive holding call? Thrown immediately once it was obvious Brady was gonna be sacked on a huge third down. Winters didn't even give a number for the call ("Holding, defense, 10 yard penalty, automatic first down."). After realizing the rig was a little too obvious, he picked up the flag.

    Mike Pereira's tweets on the play:

    "I'm trying to figure out the 'defensive hold' on the Ravens sack as well...I have no idea what that means."-Pereira

    30 seconds later...

    "I've looked and looked and looked- I have no idea what they called in NE (sic- meant to say BAL) or why they picked it up. I'm 0-2. Makes no sense."- Pereira

    Then you had the Oher "false start" on a play where the defender jumps two yards offsides...Later overturned when they realized how ridiculous it would look.

    Then you had the blatant PI against Torrey Smith...thrown about five seconds after the penalty was committed and ONLY once Smith had secured the catch and the ref realized he could throw the penalty while not helping the Ravens and attempt to save face about not playing favorites.

    Then you have the ticky tack PI calls against the Ravens, notably the Jimmy Smith penalty (Harbaugh: I can't comment on the officiating without getting fined; Hensley: Is there anything you can tell Jimmy to do differently on that play? Harbaugh: No) and Lardarius Webb penalty (illegal contact), meanwhile every single replay showed the Ravens getting mugged (notably Pitta).

    Let's also not forget that this is FAR from the first time Winters has done this to the Ravens. He's the same guy who Brady pointed to after MAYBE getting barely touched in the leg, Winters NODS and then throws a flag in a close game we ultimately lost (after which the Ravens unloaded on the refs). Oh, and he was also the ref that allowed Roddy White to shove Josh Wilson to the ground, in broad daylight, on the game winning TD for the Falcons (did I mention that Winters's crew calls more PI calls than any in the league?). Ross Tucker tweeted after the game that yesterday was "The worst officiated game I've ever seen." I wouldn't even put it in Winters's top two worst Ravens games (obligatory disclaimer: It's not why we lost).
    I dont know if he REALLY has it out for the Ravens but we do have an unfavorable history with him. It was also Ron Winter that gave Holmes a TD in Baltimore, a play that decided the division. That TD had been ruled short of the goal line and Winters went and overruled it during a replay. To this day I dont see the indisputable evidence that the ball crossed the goal line.
    Thus the call should have stood giving the Ravens D a shot at a 4th down stop to maybe seal the game.




  6. #36
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    Jul 2011
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    Fredneck, MD
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    Re: Ron Winter overrules himself.. twice?!

    Quote Originally Posted by ERey View Post
    A billion dollar league with so much at stake for all fans every week needs full time refs. It seems everything about the game has changed except for the refs. It was painful to watch old man Winter run across the field today to the replay booth.
    I officiate High School and youth football here in Frederick and we actually had one of the side judges from Ed Hochuli's crew at our banquet and that exact question came up and his response was very interesting and surprising. He said that he believes that a large percentage, maybe even half of the officials would quit because their full time jobs are where they make their money. They are doctors, dentists and lawyers for the most part.




  7. #37

    Re: Ron Winter overrules himself.. twice?!

    Quote Originally Posted by edtude View Post
    I officiate High School and youth football here in Frederick and we actually had one of the side judges from Ed Hochuli's crew at our banquet and that exact question came up and his response was very interesting and surprising. He said that he believes that a large percentage, maybe even half of the officials would quit because their full time jobs are where they make their money. They are doctors, dentists and lawyers for the most part.
    It's time for a change then, I'm sure there are plenty of American's who would take this job in a heart beat. With the right training and full time year around status to learn the art of officiating it would not take very long to be a descent ref in the NFL. Winter looked liked a total buffoon out there Sunday. I hope he is not a doctor, dentist or lawyer as you stated above or the person he is representing or taken care of might be in trouble. I know one thing, if I made that many mistakes at my job or supervising people who constantly make mistakes I would not be around very long!




  8. #38
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    Jul 2011
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    Fredneck, MD
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    409

    Re: Ron Winter overrules himself.. twice?!

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenfever View Post
    It's time for a change then, I'm sure there are plenty of American's who would take this job in a heart beat. With the right training and full time year around status to learn the art of officiating it would not take very long to be a descent ref in the NFL. Winter looked liked a total buffoon out there Sunday. I hope he is not a doctor, dentist or lawyer as you stated above or the person he is representing or taken care of might be in trouble. I know one thing, if I made that many mistakes at my job or supervising people who constantly make mistakes I would not be around very long!
    Not disagreeing with you one bit. Just putting out there what may be one of the reasons why they do not go to full time officials. It would, if what the gentlemen told were true, be disastrous to the NFL to suffer that kind of turnover to the officiating body. Me personally I think instant replay has been the best of both worlds to officiating. We can now get the call right on some very important plays, but because of instant replay I think that some officials will not make the tough calls because in the back of their mind they are afraid to make the wrong call. It is a tough thing. I am very comfortable officiating at the High School level. There will never be instant replay there or at least not as long as I am doing it.




  9. #39

    Re: Ron Winter overrules himself.. twice?!

    Quote Originally Posted by edtude View Post
    Not disagreeing with you one bit. Just putting out there what may be one of the reasons why they do not go to full time officials. It would, if what the gentlemen told were true, be disastrous to the NFL to suffer that kind of turnover to the officiating body. Me personally I think instant replay has been the best of both worlds to officiating. We can now get the call right on some very important plays, but because of instant replay I think that some officials will not make the tough calls because in the back of their mind they are afraid to make the wrong call. It is a tough thing. I am very comfortable officiating at the High School level. There will never be instant replay there or at least not as long as I am doing it.
    My only point is if there was full time refs they could learn plus train throughout the year instead of doing it on a limited basis. Like in any job the more you train the better you will be when it is crunch time. Would you want a part time or full time doctor, dentist or lawyer when it's time to represent you or take care of you?? We are human so mistakes will be made but with any profession training is the key in limiting mistakes. Just an opinion!!!




  10. #40

    Re: Ron Winter overrules himself.. twice?!

    I know it's been touched on in the thread, but add me to the list of people that clearly saw the crew watching replays on the jumbotron.




  11. #41
    I liked it when the announcers stated Winters crew and Belichek sat down before the game to talk about how the Ravens D holds receivers. Seemed to set the tone.




  12. #42

    Re: Ron Winter overrules himself.. twice?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenboy2003 View Post
    That was the other big WTF moment from his crew. I mean they call it.. they mark it off. the crowd is going nuts.. they show it on the Jumbotron,, and you see nothing that remotely resembles defensive holding, and then Winter inexplicably reverses the call.
    You have to understand that Brady got hit on that play. Winters instructs his crew that if Miss Brady gets hit, a flag comes out. Once they realized that she didn't get rid of the ball and was actually sacked, they had to try and find something else to call. They figured that if Brady didn't get rid of the ball, a Raven must've been holding a receiver somewhere. Since they didn't see that on the replays, they had to just pick up the flag.




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