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  1. #37
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    Re: The Ravens organization is stuck in the past.



    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Hey look, Ex with the exact same thread as last week but with a different title.
    Hey look, it's just as true now as it was last week.




  2. #38
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    Re: The Ravens organization is stuck in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    You don't have to think the offense is "just dandy" to recognize that the "stuck in the past" statement doesn't match reality.
    Seems like a fair assessment to me. The offensive system is 15-20 years old, and the defensive personnel fit the way the game was played 10-15 years ago. You can argue that they're good enough at evaluating talent that they can still consistently win 9-12 games and get to the playoffs doing that, but I don't think there's any argument to be made that their overall philosophy isn't keeping them from hitting their ceiling as a team.




  3. #39

    Re: The Ravens organization is stuck in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brien Jackson View Post
    Seems like a fair assessment to me. The offensive system is 15-20 years old, and the defensive personnel fit the way the game was played 10-15 years ago. You can argue that they're good enough at evaluating talent that they can still consistently win 9-12 games and get to the playoffs doing that, but I don't think there's any argument to be made that their overall philosophy isn't keeping them from hitting their ceiling as a team.
    They're defending SB champs.

    What exactly is their ceiling?

    Double defending champs?




  4. #40
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    Re: The Ravens organization is stuck in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by pickles View Post
    They're defending SB champs.

    What exactly is their ceiling?

    Double defending champs?
    So...you're saying they couldn't do any better? A 10-6 team that would have been out of the playoffs if not for converting a 4th and 29 play is the pinnacle of what you can strive to be in the NFL?




  5. #41

    Re: The Ravens organization is stuck in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uli2001 View Post
    Some changes on offense are needed. I think a series was emblematic today. With the Ravens down 20-7 and driving, everyone in the stadium and at home were envisioning a comeback. Then they turn the ball over on downs after three straight incomplete throws of 20 yards or more down the field. No imagination, no misdirection, just chuck it down the field for the ole jump ball down the sidelines.
    Got home from the game & dinner with friends at 1 am so this is the 1st thread I'm reading. I don't even know if I'm going to watch the DVR or not. I didn't like most the playcalling all night. But you nailed it here. Even when they failed to score in the 3rd qtr they managed to score on Flacco's keeper and got the ball just like you said the play calling was stupid. there was plenty of time to move the ball there so frustrating. The best thing about the game for me? The Pats fan sitting next to me wigging out about Josh McDaniels playcalling up 20-0 with 12 minutes left. If the Ravens had scored 2nd TD I think his head would have exploded. 5 mins later SAFE spotted his friend with a flask & they took off. But I digress we need a change of philosophy especially in goaline & short yardage situations. The Ravens move the ball up & down the feild and stall in the Red Zone because they try to run the ball. (Packers game Bears game at the end) Has Rice scored a TD on the ground all year? Maybe two at most I can't remember
    For all the people that want Leach out there. Who do you want to take out? Pitta or Marlon Brown? Why can't we run a play like NE's 2nd TD? We have weapons but the HC/OC don't use them right




  6. #42

    Re: The Ravens organization is stuck in the past.

    I totally agree with the OP and the ongoing problem that the Ravens consistently get outcoached and outschemed on both sides of the ball due to coaching philosophies that are stuck in the past.

    But I can't get over how poorly both sides of the line played last night. The Patriots were without their starting LT and yet they completely manhandled and dominated our DL, frequently moving each of our guys 4-5 yards off the ball, playing strict man blocking. And our OL, again playing against several backups, got NO PUSH. I mean that literally--on each play all 5 linemen got stood up and stonewalled. In pass blocking they looked like they were playing on roller skates.

    You can't do anything when your linemen are playing like pipsqueaks. The Ravens have one of the highest paid defensive lines in the league and an above average paid offensive line. And yet these guys are getting humiliated, outright humiliated, by UDFAs and young draft picks. Something has to change there.




  7. #43

    Re: The Ravens organization is stuck in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uli2001 View Post
    Some changes on offense are needed. I think a series was emblematic today. With the Ravens down 20-7 and driving, everyone in the stadium and at home were envisioning a comeback. Then they turn the ball over on downs after three straight incomplete throws of 20 yards or more down the field. No imagination, no misdirection, just chuck it down the field for the ole jump ball down the sidelines.
    This. Flacco is asked to make probably the highest amount of most difficult throws on average in the NFL, without the benefit of an elite WR. They scheme nothing underneath. It is all deep or nothing, which puts tremendous pressure on the OL and QB to wait for the WR to get deep enough. It is like because flacco can throw deep they have abandoned short to intermediate plays. It is absurd. There is no rhythm. No pace. I just don't get it.




  8. #44
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    Re: The Ravens organization is stuck in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    I totally agree with the OP and the ongoing problem that the Ravens consistently get outcoached and outschemed on both sides of the ball due to coaching philosophies that are stuck in the past.

    But I can't get over how poorly both sides of the line played last night. The Patriots were without their starting LT and yet they completely manhandled and dominated our DL, frequently moving each of our guys 4-5 yards off the ball, playing strict man blocking. And our OL, again playing against several backups, got NO PUSH. I mean that literally--on each play all 5 linemen got stood up and stonewalled. In pass blocking they looked like they were playing on roller skates.

    You can't do anything when your linemen are playing like pipsqueaks. The Ravens have one of the highest paid defensive lines in the league and an above average paid offensive line. And yet these guys are getting humiliated, outright humiliated, by UDFAs and young draft picks. Something has to change there.


    No Vince Wilfork.
    No Jerrod Mayo.
    No Nate Solder.
    No Sebastian Vollmer.
    No Rob Gronkowski.
    No Kenbrell Thompkins.
    No Alfonzo Dennard.

    It is absolutely inexcusable that they continuously lose to teams that are starting so many misplaced individuals.
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  9. #45
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    Re: The Ravens organization is stuck in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    I totally agree with the OP and the ongoing problem that the Ravens consistently get outcoached and outschemed on both sides of the ball due to coaching philosophies that are stuck in the past.

    But I can't get over how poorly both sides of the line played last night. The Patriots were without their starting LT and yet they completely manhandled and dominated our DL, frequently moving each of our guys 4-5 yards off the ball, playing strict man blocking. And our OL, again playing against several backups, got NO PUSH. I mean that literally--on each play all 5 linemen got stood up and stonewalled. In pass blocking they looked like they were playing on roller skates.

    You can't do anything when your linemen are playing like pipsqueaks. The Ravens have one of the highest paid defensive lines in the league and an above average paid offensive line. And yet these guys are getting humiliated, outright humiliated, by UDFAs and young draft picks. Something has to change there.
    On the whole, the D-line does a solid job of stuffing the run...because that's what they've been built to do. They just don't have enough pass rushers out there, and have basically nothing they can dial up when they need to get quick pressure in a quarterbacks face...especially one like Brady who reads defenses very well. The only thing they can do is bring linebackers straight up the gut...and if that gets picked up they're lost.




  10. #46

    Re: The Ravens organization is stuck in the past.

    We're just not that good this year and to still have an opportunity to get into the dance is remarkable in itself. My heart tells me that a young innovative OC will utilize the talent on this roster but the brain tells me that our front office will follow their customary "don't panic and be patient" route.

    I believe Harbaugh needs to do some soul searching on what kind of offensive philosophy he wants.




  11. #47
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    Re: The Ravens organization is stuck in the past.

    A man should not have to throw for 11 TDs and 0 Ints, constantly making pinpoint accurate throws, with hardly any open WRs, if the system is working. That is the second best Postseason run in NFL history. How people want to use that as an indictment of the system's potential success is beyond me. Especially after we all watched the constant runs on first down during that run.

    If the offensive line breaks down, due to performance or injury, there are no schematic ways to get WRs open quickly, so the line doesn't have to block as long. If the rush offense is struggling, there are no well designed screens to use as an extension of the run. What, one or two all season that we've seen that were honestly well designed? If the QB needs to get into a rhythm, something Cameron admittedly never believed in, there are no easy passes to help get him warmed up.

    In the face of adversity, this offense goes to complete shit, because the system is predicated on running the ball first, to set up the play action, and still trying to chuck the damned thing 20 yards down field even when the run struggles. Even when they try to use shorter routes, they are schemed poorly, because it's not what the system emphasizes. It's just like when Harbaugh tries to get Pees to blitz more, that's out of his element, which is why the blitzes are picked up so easily.

    Name me two other teams that run a variation of the system successfully today. If you want to count Detroit, who pretty much sends jump passes to Calvin Johnson in double coverage, a success (I sure wouldn't), that would be one. If you do count them, note the name of the guy they are sending those passes down field to. Calvin Johnson. You're basically asking for a Calvin Johnson for the system to work.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  12. #48
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    Re: The Ravens organization is stuck in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    It's just like when Harbaugh tries to get Pees to blitz more, that's out of his element, which is why the blitzes are picked up so easily.
    I'll quibble a bit and say that this is an assertion lacking evidence. Maybe it's true of Pees' tendencies, but even if he wants to design stunts and aggressive blitzes, he simply doesn't have the personnel to do it. The Ravens have all of one interior lineman (Jones) with the athleticism to do that. Other than that, they're all primarily big run stuffers.

    Name me two other teams that run a variation of the system successfully today. If you want to count Detroit, who pretty much sends jump passes to Calvin Johnson in double coverage, a success (I sure wouldn't), that would be one. If you do count them, note the name of the guy they are sending those passes down field to. Calvin Johnson. You're basically asking for a Calvin Johnson for the system to work.
    I think Detroit would have to be classified as a success, all things considered, but yeah, this is sort of the point: If you want to run this system, you need big physical receivers and at least one legitimate stud to make it happen. As I said, the Ravens' biggest problem, conceptually, with their offense is that the coaching staff and general manager aren't on the same page when it comes to fitting personnel and scheme.




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