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  1. #91

    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit



    NFL VP of officiating confirms Garvin hit was illegal...
    I hope he's suspended. Draw the line now. Wouldn't surprise me if the Steelers targeted Justin Tucker next year if they got the chance

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200...er-was-penalty

    "Huber, he's a punter. And the key is he's defenseless throughout the down," Blandino said Tuesday on NFL Network's "NFL Total Access." "So even though he's pursuing the play, he still gets defenseless-player protection. You can't hit him in the head or neck, and you can't use the crown or forehead parts of the helmet to the body."




  2. #92
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    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    looks like he has protection as a punter so an otherwise good hit is deemed illegal.


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  3. #93

    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    looks like he has protection as a punter so an otherwise good hit is deemed illegal.


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    You could read it that way. But I think the NFL should clarify that matter when they announce the fine or suspension. I don't think that was a good hit even if it wasn't a punter, because it was helmet and seemed to be intent to injure. No need for that type of play and all too often it's the Steelers who do it.




  4. #94

    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    Based on what? Perception? I would bet the stats are pretty even across the league. I would be curious to see them. I did search with no luck.

    I agree, they should clarify the rule.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Hiker View Post
    You could read it that way. But I think the NFL should clarify that matter when they announce the fine or suspension. I don't think that was a good hit even if it wasn't a punter, because it was helmet and seemed to be intent to injure. No need for that type of play and all too often it's the Steelers who do it.




  5. #95
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    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Hiker View Post
    You could read it that way. But I think the NFL should clarify that matter when they announce the fine or suspension. I don't think that was a good hit even if it wasn't a punter, because it was helmet and seemed to be intent to injure. No need for that type of play and all too often it's the Steelers who do it.
    I'm with you Mav, unnecessary and happens way too often involving Steeler players.

    Burfict was hearing cries of foul early in the season. Marvin told him to fix it. He did, but Steelers still Head Hunt.
    I want a Flacco jersey! Johnny Bench wore #5




  6. #96
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    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    I want a Flacco jersey! Johnny Bench wore #5




  7. #97

    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    Quote Originally Posted by Complex View Post
    "Lunges?" No, he was blocking. He did more than lunge. The went to block another player about to make a tackle on a potential kick return for a TD. Of course he left his feet, he was blocking.

    It seems the hit may have been illegal on the grounds that the player was a punter. That seems to be the root of the issue. Nobody knows for sure. The second, but far more serious issue is the injury. Is it the injury that will be fined or the block? Because kickers regularly get involved in returns. If he was not injured, would there be such noise? Or would it be just another missed call by the refs? If so, it happens frequently.

    Garvin did not lead with his helmet. He clearly turned his head. Huber's head snapped forward as a result of the force. That is how their helmets hit. It should not be labeled a "helmet to helmet" hit, that contact was incidental to the block. However, players indeed are not allowed to block punters, then sure, it is a penalty. But a penalty worth a fine? I would think not. Then by proxy, it would be a fine on the injury itself. Which I believe the league weighs it's disciplinary actions on injuries, not the result of a penalty. And does the extent of an injury increase the penalty? Is that fair to a player? If that is the case, there should be a specific clause in the rules.

    A few things are evident as result of this incident:

    What exactly is the definition of "defenseless?
    Are punters and kickers considered "defenseless" throughout the course of the play?
    Are penalty amounts determined by the extent of an injury?
    Can punters and kickers be blocked after a kick or punt even in order to prevent a tackle?

    How the league handles this will be interesting. It might take them a few days to sort this out. One thing I do know, this entire incident is unfortunate for both players. the upside is it just might force the league to clear up a lot of questions regarding kickers.


    Sorry i don't see Garvin turn his head at all.

    Slow motion shows him (to my eyes) lower his head right into the chin and neck area of Huber. I don't see anywhere that Hubers head goes forward at all. You actually see the lower rim of his helmet flex inward from the force.

    I understand it is a violent game at times and one can get seriously injured playing it. At the same time i don't see the need to ever hit anyone like that on any team.

    According to Blandino punters are "defenseless" through the entire down even when they are attempting to make a tackle making it illegal to hit them in the head and neck area.




  8. #98

    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens825 View Post
    Sorry i don't see Garvin turn his head at all.

    Slow motion shows him (to my eyes) lower his head right into the chin and neck area of Huber. I don't see anywhere that Hubers head goes forward at all. You actually see the lower rim of his helmet flex inward from the force.

    I understand it is a violent game at times and one can get seriously injured playing it. At the same time i don't see the need to ever hit anyone like that on any team.

    According to Blandino punters are "defenseless" through the entire down even when they are attempting to make a tackle making it illegal to hit them in the head and neck area.
    Not wanting to get in a pissing contest with others I saw the same thing. Good post. He lead with and used the crown of the helmet examining the replay multiple times. I expect a fine will be announced soon.




  9. #99

    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    I also take issue with guys who constantly go low (around the knees) to make tackles too.

    There is no reason to blow out a guys knee or break his Tibia or Fibula.

    I am about 6 foot tall give or take an inch and i would think that the chest, torso and upper thigh is a big enough target. Why aim for the head/neck area or the knees?


    Again i know people get hurt all the time. Some of it is unavoidable while some of it is just poor technique.




  10. #100
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    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    Quote Originally Posted by CincyCat View Post
    Sounds like your guys will be OK with Powell--he's kicked in the NFL this year & understands the Bengals' approach.

    @Complex: Enough with the special pleading. You support a team of thugs & cheaters. How does it feel to be in the top 1% of a characteristically inbred, morbidly obtuse & borderline sociopathic fan base?




  11. #101

    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens825 View Post
    I also take issue with guys who constantly go low (around the knees) to make tackles too.

    There is no reason to blow out a guys knee or break his Tibia or Fibula.

    I am about 6 foot tall give or take an inch and i would think that the chest, torso and upper thigh is a big enough target. Why aim for the head/neck area or the knees?


    Again i know people get hurt all the time. Some of it is unavoidable while some of it is just poor technique.
    There may be a rule change to prevent going low like the tackle which took out Gonkowski for at least the rest of this year. It seems some tacklers want to injure the receiver, since the head shots were taken away from them they go low to injure the knee area. Just tackle the guy in the chest upper thigh area.




  12. #102

    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    Garvin has been fined 25K for the hit which brok Huber's jaw.

    http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/...#axzz2nsdnvUrL
    "Steelers linebacker Terence Garvin has been fined $25,000 by the NFL for his helmet-to-chin hit that put Bengals punter Kevin Huber out for the rest of the season.

    The fine is above the standard, first-offense fine of $22,050 for hitting a defenseless player, but the NFL can arbitrarily choose to levy a larger fine if it wants. A league source confirmed the fine amount on Wednesday.

    Garvin will appeal the fine. Under the NFL's labor agreement, a player can be fined only as much as one-quarter of his weekly pay. Garvin makes the NFL minimum of $23,800 per week, so his fine could be appealed down to about $6,000."




  13. #103

    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    Quote Originally Posted by Complex View Post
    "Lunges?" No, he was blocking. He did more than lunge. The went to block another player about to make a tackle on a potential kick return for a TD. Of course he left his feet, he was blocking.

    It seems the hit may have been illegal on the grounds that the player was a punter. That seems to be the root of the issue. Nobody knows for sure. The second, but far more serious issue is the injury. Is it the injury that will be fined or the block? Because kickers regularly get involved in returns. If he was not injured, would there be such noise? Or would it be just another missed call by the refs? If so, it happens frequently.

    Garvin did not lead with his helmet. He clearly turned his head. Huber's head snapped forward as a result of the force. That is how their helmets hit. It should not be labeled a "helmet to helmet" hit, that contact was incidental to the block. However, players indeed are not allowed to block punters, then sure, it is a penalty. But a penalty worth a fine? I would think not. Then by proxy, it would be a fine on the injury itself. Which I believe the league weighs it's disciplinary actions on injuries, not the result of a penalty. And does the extent of an injury increase the penalty? Is that fair to a player? If that is the case, there should be a specific clause in the rules.

    A few things are evident as result of this incident:

    What exactly is the definition of "defenseless?
    Are punters and kickers considered "defenseless" throughout the course of the play?
    Are penalty amounts determined by the extent of an injury?
    Can punters and kickers be blocked after a kick or punt even in order to prevent a tackle?

    How the league handles this will be interesting. It might take them a few days to sort this out. One thing I do know, this entire incident is unfortunate for both players. the upside is it just might force the league to clear up a lot of questions regarding kickers.
    Agree the Nfl needs to clear up things. But I see a player who could have raised his arms tomake a better block, not do what he did. No way you convince me that was legal. How about the other two hits on bengal players that the refs wouldn't call. One was a block in the back, that TD should have never been allowed. Nfl agrees with football fans that called the hit illegal. How will the steelers coach handle it, that should be what needs to be done. Tomlin may be a good coach for winning(2 back to back bad seasons LMAO), but he has lost credibility with fans who see how the steelers act. Watch TP when the steelers are going to lose in the 4th Qtr,he becomes a punk and a thug. Other teams have that problem too, but teams with good coaches,rarely do.




  14. #104

    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    If kickers are going to be 'defensless' for the entireity of the play - GET THEM OFF THE FIELD. So long as kicker are entitled to make a tackle - they are fair game.

    Garvin's fine is a fine for the injury - not for the block itself. Had Huber picked himself an troted off the field after the play we would not be having this discussion. While I feel sorry for his injury - he is a football player on the field playing the game in all it's aspects.




  15. #105
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    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    Quote Originally Posted by mmi16 View Post
    If kickers are going to be 'defensless' for the entireity of the play - GET THEM OFF THE FIELD. So long as kicker are entitled to make a tackle - they are fair game.

    Garvin's fine is a fine for the injury - not for the block itself. Had Huber picked himself an troted off the field after the play we would not be having this discussion. While I feel sorry for his injury - he is a football player on the field playing the game in all it's aspects.
    It's almost like some of you don't bother reading what defines a defenses player or the policies regarding hitting them.

    Defenseless doesn't mean untouchable. It means you can't deck them above the collar of below the knee pad. That leaves plenty of viable points to aim absolutely crushing blocks, but you must use good technique and actually fucking block instead of this bullshit "Jacked Up" helmet tipped missile shit that players like to do these days.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




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