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  1. #16

    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit



    As for the context of the block, it was a legal, justified block. The player did lean to the left to move his head away from the other players helmet and body. His shoulder did make contact simultaneously with the player at at the center. I do think it was his left jaw that was broken (I would have to check to be sure) and that is the side where the shoulder contacted. So, in the that regard, I think it was a legal block.

    Now, did their helmets collide? I can't be sure. The views I witnessed did not show that definitively. If they did, it was not because the player "lead with the helmet." Will there be a fine? I don't know. Would I be surprised - no. There have been some seemingly obvious calls and fines not called and others that were questionable called. It seems the culture is to demand or call a penalty anytime a player gets hit so hard they are injured.

    I can say that Huber definitely was not practicing situational awareness. He got creamed while not paying attention. That is on Huber, not the guy who hit him. What is he supposed to do, tap him on the shoulder? Call his name to get his attention? If he does not get a broken jaw, this conversations probably would not happen. Just because Huber is not looking and was injured does not mean it was a dirty hit.

    And to insinuate that any NFL coach encourages players to hit in a manner that is obviously illegal, can injure both players, and lead to fines for the player, and be a game changing event is silly.

    Regardless, I feel bad for Huber. I hate to see players from any team or any position get injured. And I am sure Huber will be much more aware of the opposing players position in relation to his position in the future.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Hiker View Post
    Personally I think Tomlin encourages this type of play, while Harbaugh does the opposite.
    Last edited by Complex; 12-16-2013 at 10:04 AM.




  2. #17
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    My problem with punters and kickers being treated differently than other players is that they sometimes make tackles. Sometimes touchdown-saving tackles. Sometimes game-changing tackles. So why can't they be blocked the same as other players? I say make your kick and trot to the sidelines, and then you should be protected as a defenseless player. But as soon as you run down field and start filling a lane or looking to make a tackle, you are a football player subject to the same violence as other football players.
    "Leave. Your. Mark."




  3. #18

    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    That is a great point. Maybe the kicking team could keep another ST player on the field while the punter exits through the back of the end zone. As a punter, I would think they realize that if they are going to try to make a play they are doing so at their own peril.

    \
    Quote Originally Posted by HotInHere View Post
    My problem with punters and kickers being treated differently than other players is that they sometimes make tackles. Sometimes touchdown-saving tackles. Sometimes game-changing tackles. So why can't they be blocked the same as other players? I say make your kick and trot to the sidelines, and then you should be protected as a defenseless player. But as soon as you run down field and start filling a lane or looking to make a tackle, you are a football player subject to the same violence as other football players.




  4. #19

    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    Looks to me like his shoulder never hit his head, it was the crown of the helmet only.

    http://larrybrownsports.com/football...t-video/214016

    He'll be fined. Also, kickers usually have a minimal sized face mask, there was enough space under it to expose his jaw. He needs to upgrade his grill in the future.




  5. #20
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    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Yeah, I was just about to post something similar. PFT breaks it down here that punters / kickers are considered defenseless players, thus a flag should have been thrown.
    Sounds like he should have been flagged according to the rule. But that is a bullshit rule. If the punters and kickers are considered defenseless players all the time then they should not be allowed to try and make a tackle, or even push someone out of bounds. They should just run off the field after kicking the ball.




  6. #21
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    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    Quote Originally Posted by ERey View Post
    Sounds like he should have been flagged according to the rule. But that is a bullshit rule. If the punters and kickers are considered defenseless players all the time then they should not be allowed to try and make a tackle, or even push someone out of bounds. They should just run off the field after kicking the ball.
    Agreed.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  7. #22
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    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    I don't see anything wrong with the hit. The guy didn't lead with his helmet at all. He clearly has his head turned to the side and puts his shoulder into the punter. Furthermore, the punter was going to be able to make a play on Antonio Brown. It isn't like he was 20 yards away from the play.
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  8. #23
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    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick Hiker View Post
    The initial contact was both with the shoulder and the helmet. Helmet to helmet does apply. The articles I have read about the play indicate a fine is very likely.
    Here is what the USA headline article this morning said about the play.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...ek-15/4036515/

    Garvin's helmet caught Huber under his chin and resulted in a fractured jaw for Huber, which would end his season. The play could also draw a fine from the league.
    End his season? I can see not coming back into the game, but once he gets it wired up, he can probably play. Just can't try and make tackles, but then it looks like he shouldn't be doing that anyway.




  9. #24
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    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I don't see anything wrong with the hit. The guy didn't lead with his helmet at all. He clearly has his head turned to the side and puts his shoulder into the punter. Furthermore, the punter was going to be able to make a play on Antonio Brown. It isn't like he was 20 yards away from the play.
    10 years ago this would have been #1 on ESPN's jacked up and we all would have been cheering it on. even now, it's not illegal and if it was one of our guys laying the hit, we probably would be cheering it on. Hell, I'm waxing nostalgic watching it over and over.




  10. #25

    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    Warning: Football is a dangerous sport.

    That punter was looking to make a tackle. That dude made a clean hit on a player involved in the play. Yes, the guy making the hit is 6' 3 and the punter is 5' 11" so even though the Steeler led with the shoulder to chest... the helmet rode up under the punters... That happens when your body moves and your head whips forward...

    I don't want to see guys tracking a kicker or punter looking for a kill shot... but if he's getting into position to make a play, he's fair game.

    If punters and kickers don't want to get hit then run OFF the field after the ball is kicked.




  11. #26

    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    Quote Originally Posted by JCroUSAF View Post
    He may not have meant to hurt him but he certainly had every intent to hit him as hard as possible.
    When do football players NOT try to do that? He had a clear shot at a guy who was attempting to make a tackle. He got his helmet in there, which under the rules should have been a flag, but I don't think he was trying to cheap-shot him. It wasn't anywhere close to a "blind side" hit.

    A shoulder pad to the chest would have been a good, clean, legal hit on someone who was trying to make a play.
    I've upped my standards. Up yours.




  12. #27

    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    Quote Originally Posted by moose10101 View Post
    A shoulder pad to the chest would have been a good, clean, legal hit on someone who was trying to make a play.
    agreed... but when I look at this hit... it looks like he led with the shoulders, but the problem is... your head is attached to your shoulders. So is always gonna be some contact. That's why the put helmets on in the first place. But it doesn't look like he led with the crown of his helmet to me.




  13. #28
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    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    The NFL Steelers are becoming unwatchable for me.
    I did watch the Ravens with Tomlin's $100,000 smirk.
    Cody Wallace's testicle crushing of Randy Starks.
    Then seeing the targeting of Kevin Huber by Terence Garvin was enough to cause me to change channels and watch something else.
    I'm done with the Steelers, unless they are playing the Ravens, they are now as important as Dortmund in the Bundesliga or the Ahmedabad Rockets in the India Cricket league... not worth my time or attention on my part or any special name other than the official one.
    To understand paranoid people better, follow them around.




  14. #29

    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    I'm all for making the game safer, but this is a legal play. It's a nasty, dirty play, but a legal one. Garvin did not lead with the helmet, did not peel-back, did not leave his feet, did not make helmet-to-helmet contact, etc but it's always going to be at least a little dirty to go for a knockout shot on a punter. I can't see anything about the play that is patently illegal.

    I'm aware of PFT's explanation that kickers and punters are always defenseless, but I don't think that's correct. I'd have to research the rules for myself, but there is NO WAY kickers/punters are given a permanent shield of invulnerability at all times that makes them untouchable. That would be crazy... these guys can and do make tackles, blocks, etc... they're football players and they make football plays! If they're ever defenseless while moving about the field of play, it's because of their own failure to be aware of their surroundings, which is ultimately what got Huber jacked up in the first place.

    Kickers and punters ARE defenseless immediately before, during, and after the event of kicking, though. That I get 100%. But Huber had LONG since completed his punting motion and was moving about the field completely free to defend himself. He should have done a better job and his teammates should have had his back a bit better. He was in no way actually defenseless.

    I'm not excusing Garvin, it was definitely a grimy play, but football is a game where guys just get plain beat up and the Bengals got beat the hell up by the Steelers last night. Garvin's play emphasized that one team was playing tough, borderline-dirty football and one team was scared to get their jerseys dirty. The proper football response to the Garvin hit should have been somebody getting a huge, legal block in on Garvin the next play.




  15. #30

    Re: Bengals Punter's Jaw Broken by Steelers Blind Side Hit

    "Defenseless" does not mean that they are untouchable. It's the same difference as "defenseless receiver". A defenseless receiver loses that designation once the the catch is made and he starts to make the football play. You can tackle/hit a defenseless receiver, but there are limitations as to how you do it to protect him.




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