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Thread: TE or WR

  1. #25

    Re: TE or WR



    Check's in the mail, Igotstoknow!
    These boards are great b/c they are jammed packed with full of smart guys around here...in all areas of the game, and in the business of the game. I'm just trying to keep up!

    WRT late-round guys, I really like Bowling Green's Alex Bayer and Indiana's Ted Bolser.
    Both take a lot of snaps in the mid-slot, tight-slot, in-line, and in the backfield. Any Kubiak offense will feature the same multi-positioning.

    Bolser is a natural pass catcher. He extends his hands, and the ball just gets swallowed up, and then he's immediately in an aggressive running posture/position. Think Gronk or think the opposite of Ed Dickson. At an unconfirmed 6'5 257, he's a little bigger than Kubiak's TE median that I talk about above...FWIW. His blocking needs improving (like so many college TEs). I mean he's often in position for his assignment, but he doesn't quite lock-on and drive guys. His career line is 117 / 1337 / 15 for an 11.4 average. For 2013, he went 35 / 320 / 6 for a 9.1 average. Not sexy at all, but he'll get a Combine invite (big guy, Big 10) and I think he's a mid rounder.

    Bayer looks to be very well-rounded. His blocking is top tier for this class...but that needs to be emphasized; this class. With the ball in his hands, he's not quite the smooth player that Bolser is, but he's more than just a big rumbler. His hands look solid, he's athletic enough, and he flashes some attitude too. He's an unconfirmed 6'4 258. His TD vs. Pitt @ 4:36 is pretty nice. His career line is 115 / 1543 / 10 for a 13.4 average. For 2013, he went 37 / 593 / 4 for a 16.0 average. He had a monster game in the MAC championship helping take down undefeated Northern Illinois. We'll see in a week or so when the announcements come whether he gets an invite or not. Seems like he's a lock.

    Also, I happen to pretty much randomly watch Illinois' Evan Wilson pretty early in the season and I still haven't seen a better blocker. If I have a dark horse, it's him. His stats line is minimal and he won't get a Combine invite, so he's well into UDFA territory.

    For your first question, I need to put my notes together for Niklas, Lynch and Gilmore, but my "to the point" impressions of each are as follows...
    Niklas - raw, needs to develop and strengthen
    Lynch - soft (as in not tough for his size) and unreliable hands
    Gilmore - athletic, high potential

    Also, it's worth noting that Matt Furstenburg perfectly fits the physical blueprint of a Kubiak TE. With the decks likely cleared of Dickson and Clark, and if we go with a mid/low round pick, Furstenburg will get his snaps and chances.
    Last edited by BigPlayReceiver; 01-29-2014 at 02:06 PM.
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  2. #26

    Re: TE or WR

    Good posts BPR. Crockett Gilmore is a guy that I looked into after reading about how good he looked in Senior Bowl practices. I was impressed by what I saw particularly with his blocking, and he would be a good mid-round target.

    I watched some of Jacob Pedersen and was fairly impressed. He does fit the mold of the Shanahan/Kubiak type of TE as a versatile guy who can line up in-line, at H-back, FB, or in the slot. He's very similar to Pitta, but Kubiak has often used 2 very similar (both physically and in terms of overall skill-set) TEs at a time. I was initially concerned about the fit of a smaller TE with blocking concerns such as Pitta in Kubiak's offense, but after scouting some Texans tape I don't feel bad about it at all and I think the Ravens will look to make Pitta an every-down TE, unlike how he was used previously.

    Two reasons: first, Kubiak and his people get the most out of their TEs, even if they're not natural blockers; I think Pitta could go from an awful blocker to an adequate one pretty quickly. Second, Kubiak's WCO doesn't really ask TEs to generate movement at the point of attack, but rather to pin/trap and guard the backside. That's less taxing than what the Ravens have asked their TEs to do in the past.

    At this point, I'm looking hard at more of a mid-round TE like a Pedersen or Gilmore rather than an early-round Ebron or Amaro.




  3. #27

    Re: TE or WR

    Ah ha! HOU/Kubiak wanted Pitta over Garrett Graham in 2010.
    That's another reason why he was gushing about him at the presser.

    Kubiak wanted Pitta.JPG
    Last edited by BigPlayReceiver; 01-30-2014 at 08:56 AM.
    Back to the AFCCG we go. So get ready!

    Team MVP to-date: Rick Wagner and C.J. Mosley (tie)

    Having fun talking football on Twitter @BigPlayReceiver




  4. #28
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    Re: TE or WR

    And that's why Pitta is going to be franchised.




  5. #29

    Re: TE or WR

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    And that's why Pitta is going to be franchised.
    I don't think the team will have any trouble at all working out a long-term deal with Pitta. I don't think the tag will become necessary. If anything, they'll only use the tag to hang onto Eugene Monroe while they work a deal out with him. I really don't see the team entering the 2014 season with anybody under the tag.

    The biggest problem with using the tag on Pitta is that he and his agent will likely argue that he should be tagged as a WR, not a TE, due to lining up in the slot or flexed out over 70% of the time. That would make his tag number over $11m instead of just under $7m. The team isn't going to do that.




  6. #30
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    Re: TE or WR

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    I don't think the team will have any trouble at all working out a long-term deal with Pitta. I don't think the tag will become necessary. If anything, they'll only use the tag to hang onto Eugene Monroe while they work a deal out with him. I really don't see the team entering the 2014 season with anybody under the tag.

    The biggest problem with using the tag on Pitta is that he and his agent will likely argue that he should be tagged as a WR, not a TE, due to lining up in the slot or flexed out over 70% of the time. That would make his tag number over $11m instead of just under $7m. The team isn't going to do that.
    There has been no talks at all between the Ravens and his agent yet, so we'll see. That may change when it comes closer to free agency. Right now, I'm guessing that Pitta is going to be franchised, Monroe is going to get a long term deal (supposedly they are in active communication, so Monroe is obviously seen as priority), and Suggs will be extended. The Ravens are supposedly going to be very active in FA on the offensive side of the ball, we'll see just how active they are going to be.

    I'd also seriously consider restructuring Webb's deal. If we can shed $5M off his 2014 cap number (see Ravors proposed deal), and add it over the remaining three years of his deal, it just adds $1.6M each year, which really isn't that much, and won't have particularly huge cap ramifications down the line.




  7. #31

    Re: TE or WR

    NFP's Scouting Report on Fiedorowicz

    As a blocker, he comes off the ball quickly and can stay low. He makes good initial contact and can keep his feet moving to finish. He has the strength and power to turn and seal his opponent and can also gain some movement. He shows he can play with bend but will get tall on occasion. He does a good job with his hands and keeps them inside.
    As a receiver, he is used mostly on short routes. He has a good release and can get in and out of a cut with good quickness. He knows his to use his size to shield a defender and has a good receiving radius. With his huge hands, he catches the ball easily and can extend to make the difficult catch. On seam routes, he shows he can get some separation, but I don’t see him as a top deep receiving threat. After the catch, he is a strong runner who can break tackles and get yards after contact.
    He sounds like a good blocker who'd probably catch about 40-50 balls a year with 5-7 touchdowns. He'd be a great compliment to Pitta.




  8. #32
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    Re: TE or WR

    Yes, I'd take CJ later on in the 3rd. In this offense, we need two athletic TEs, and a big mauling blocking TE, CJ fits that bill. However, the only issue I have with him is his ceiling as a receiver. Ultimately he's going to be a Zach Miller or a Dressen in this league, nothing wrong with that, but he isn't going to be as good as a Heath Miller or a Jason Witten IMO who are similar type of TEs. I just think you can find guys like him on the market pretty easily, Zach Miller is going to be cut, and the Ravens want to spend on offense this season. If we end up signing a Miller, I'd much prefer to take an athletic TE like a Ebron or a Amaro over someone like Fiedorowicz.




  9. #33
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    Re: TE or WR

    Quote Originally Posted by Justlovemybirds View Post
    NFP's Scouting Report on Fiedorowicz



    He sounds like a good blocker who'd probably catch about 40-50 balls a year with 5-7 touchdowns. He'd be a great compliment to Pitta.
    I agree.

    He's not going to outrun anyone, but Jason Witten isn't a speedster. Neither is Heath Miller or Kyle Rudolph or Marcedes Lewis or Martellus Bennett...

    CJ can block and he can catch. His size alone is a mismatch, especially in the red zone.
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  10. #34

    Re: TE or WR

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I agree.

    He's not going to outrun anyone, but Jason Witten isn't a speedster. Neither is Heath Miller or Kyle Rudolph or Marcedes Lewis or Martellus Bennett...

    CJ can block and he can catch. His size alone is a mismatch, especially in the red zone.
    All of those guys are way better athletes than CJ Fiedorowicz. It's not all about speed, it's also about quickness, agility, and explosion. Fiedorowicz has none of that. He is so, so slow-footed and he can't really run routes. He can't change directions, so he'll never be able to run a full route tree from the TE position.

    Again, the guy is what he is: a 6th offensive lineman. And he's very good in that role. But drafting a 6th OL with your 3rd round pick is ridiculous, especially when that guy isn't actually a mismatch. A mismatch TE is a guy who is too big to be covered by a DB and too fast to be covered by a LB. In the NFL, teams will defend Fiedorowicz with a base LB and will be successful, because Fiedorowicz is slower and less athletic than most NFL LBs.




  11. #35
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    Re: TE or WR

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Considering receivers like Coleman, Cooks, Adams, Landry, Beckham and Matthews will probably slide into the 2nd round; I am still of the mindset that the first pick should be the best lineman on the board. The only way I say no to that is if we have a shot. At Watkins or Evans.

    I totally agree that Joe needs weapons, but he needs time too.


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    I heard Mel Kiper say he expects 7 - 8 Olinemen to be taken in the first, primarily tackle. However I also heard him say the same about QBs in the first. If that is close to reality that means half the teams in the first will take one of those two positions. When I look at the prospects, I just have a hard time making those numbers work.

    Back OT - We need a big TE who can block and has good hands and there are options. WR may continue to be a FA guy brought in to compete plus a few more young guys to see if they can find a gem.

    Lots of UDFA's this year to work with too
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  12. #36
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    Re: TE or WR

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    Lots of UDFA's this year to work with too
    Considering the Ravens signed Tucker (2012) and M. Brown (2013), UDFAs are an important part of Ozzie's arsenal... Bc




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