The disappearance of Matty Ice

[The Excellector]

http://boards.atlantafalcons.com/ind...&fromMainBar=1

I took the liberty to type Flacco in the search box. You will be pissed in 1 minute or less lol.

It's saying that I have to log in.

[esporter113]

I like Matt Ryan a lot but I can't help but think he's going to have a very Tony Romo-ish career. You know, he'll put up great stats in a cushy dome throwing to some of the best weapons in the league, but will probably come up a little short every time you put him in Lambeau or New York in January with the swirling winds and snow and such. He's a very good quarterback. Accurate and highly intelligent. And for those reasons he'll be paid like a franchise quarterback and kept around for a long time. But I don't know that he's particularly special.

[GOTA]

it is hard to say. I will say this. They simply do not challenge defenses deep. Therefore defenses merely squat on the short stuff. They had a stretch where in 4/5 games they scored less than 13 points. I think flacco could have at least opened up their deep game a bit and forced defenses to back off a little.whether or not that would have led to more wins is debatable. The falcons were 1-4 even with Julio.

What I see is a whole different set of problems with Flacco there but the same losing results. With Flacco they establish the deep game but they also turn the ball over a lot more. The Falcons defense is horrible. You give other teams more possessions and they're going to score.

Honestly I don't think Flacco or Ryan are good enough to save that team. A healthy Aaron Rodgers and maybe Drew Brees since they can be effective under constant pass rush but that's about it.

I do like the fact that the media is finally backing off all this Matty Ice crap. That's the real disappearance.

[Bigfish]

I never felt the need to bash Ryan to elevate Joe. He's a good quarterback that plays in a different offense in a dome, spends all of it's money on the offense to the detriment of it's defense. So much of a different situation that it's difficult to compare to Joe. Comparing the success of both teams during the tenure of both QBs, the Ravens and Joe have been better. While having the edge in wins and loses, they have done so in the AFCN, extra points for playing better competition.

[Beau Petard]

GOTA--
"I do like the fact that the media is finally backing off all this Matty Ice crap. That's the real disappearance."
:word

[bmorecareful]

For me, it's been about the media "ballwashing" that went on with Matty Ice over the early years. (Just so you all don't worry, I got over it! ;)) However, I think a couple things need to be put in perspective.

Regarding the toys Flacco needs, is it a general consensus that the WR corps needs a "huge" upgrade? IMHO, T. Smith is a legit "top tier" receiver at this point. I think his production suffers a bit due to inconsistent pass blocking as well as he's the obvious big play target at whom opponents can game plan . But Marlon Brown is showing me the passion needed , even as a rookie, to become another consistent threat next year that will be a big concern to defenses. Yes, we need Pitta back to form, but I just don't think Flacco is hurting all that bad for receivers.

I think it will be interesting to see how Rice finishes out the season. I on't know his contract, but the Ravens site lists him at 26yo and with 6 seasons - that is still reasonably young for an RB, but frankly, it's past the standard RB shelf life, which IIRC is about 5. Can he stay healthy, rediscover his "moves" and again be what he was? I guess we'll see. FWIW and IMO, I think a lot of the Ravens running game deteriorization this season was based upon the O-line, injuries, blocking scheme and new guys. I wonder if things improve with a year under their belts.

If Ozzie asked me what I think is needed, I'd say better and more depth in the O-line, other stuff second. I'd also like to see more resources allotted to how they configure the QB situation. I like Taylor, but as others note elsewhere, he's probably not the best solution if Flacco suffers any major issues.

Perhaps we'll simply have to agree to disagree, but I again question this line of reasoning. Torrey Smith got a hot start to the year, but IMO I don't see #1 WRs disappearing for several games a season like he does. His route running and hands are still not great, and he gets surprisingly little separation from CBs on sideline routes.

Ultimately I think Torrey is going to continue to get better, but his future is that of a really high-end #2 WR. He can be dominant at times, but I think the Ravens will get the most out of him if they have somebody across from him drawing more attention. Marlon Brown is a great player and a great story, but he's more of a slot/possession guy. He also is not the dominant kind of #1 target that teams fear and need to account for.

So basically, you have a really good #2 and #3 receiver... but no #1. Now, I'm not necessarily saying that #1 guy even needs to be a WR... it could be a TE, which we also have a huge need for since we have 0 of them under contract next year (although we could easily retain Furstenburg on a cheap contract.) Maybe that could be Pitta, but even if we re-sign him we have 0 depth at TE, so why not go out and try to get a potential game-breaking type of talent at the position?

Basically I guess what I'm saying is that a top-3 group of receivers consisting of Torrey Smith, Marlon Brown, and (potentially, since he's a FA) Dennis Pitta is not good enough for the Ravens to be a dominant passing team, which they need to become in order to be long-term successful. That's my argument in a nutshell. On the other side, you could say that #1 that group IS good enough, OR #2 the Ravens don't need to become a dominant passing team, or #3 both.

[BcRaven]

I used to frequent the Falconslife board along with Bt. I wasnt necessarily that I liked or disliked Ryan, I just liked the comparison between he and Flacco. After visiting their board, I have come to (hate to say it) wish him failure because they disrespect Flacco to no end. Bt actually predicted ther demise and they called him every thing but a child of God. Now they are over there talking about the need to draft a QB.
It's hilarious to me now.

I think Falcons fans are jealous of Flacco's success because they really do believe that Ryan is the better QB. It's called frustration.
Matty Ice, "I'm melting, but Joe is keeping his cool."
... Bc

[Terpsfan82]

What I see is a whole different set of problems with Flacco there but the same losing results. With Flacco they establish the deep game but they also turn the ball over a lot more. The Falcons defense is horrible. You give other teams more possessions and they're going to score.

Honestly I don't think Flacco or Ryan are good enough to save that team. A healthy Aaron Rodgers and maybe Drew Brees since they can be effective under constant pass rush but that's about it.

I do like the fact that the media is finally backing off all this Matty Ice crap. That's the real disappearance.

This.

[Justlovemybirds]

What I see is a whole different set of problems with Flacco there but the same losing results. With Flacco they establish the deep game but they also turn the ball over a lot more. The Falcons defense is horrible. You give other teams more possessions and they're going to score.

Honestly I don't think Flacco or Ryan are good enough to save that team. A healthy Aaron Rodgers and maybe Drew Brees since they can be effective under constant pass rush but that's about it.

I do like the fact that the media is finally backing off all this Matty Ice crap. That's the real disappearance.

That's what I'm glad is happening.

[JAB1985]

Perhaps we'll simply have to agree to disagree, but I again question this line of reasoning. Torrey Smith got a hot start to the year, but IMO I don't see #1 WRs disappearing for several games a season like he does. His route running and hands are still not great, and he gets surprisingly little separation from CBs on sideline routes.

Ultimately I think Torrey is going to continue to get better, but his future is that of a really high-end #2 WR. He can be dominant at times, but I think the Ravens will get the most out of him if they have somebody across from him drawing more attention. Marlon Brown is a great player and a great story, but he's more of a slot/possession guy. He also is not the dominant kind of #1 target that teams fear and need to account for.

So basically, you have a really good #2 and #3 receiver... but no #1. Now, I'm not necessarily saying that #1 guy even needs to be a WR... it could be a TE, which we also have a huge need for since we have 0 of them under contract next year (although we could easily retain Furstenburg on a cheap contract.) Maybe that could be Pitta, but even if we re-sign him we have 0 depth at TE, so why not go out and try to get a potential game-breaking type of talent at the position?

Basically I guess what I'm saying is that a top-3 group of receivers consisting of Torrey Smith, Marlon Brown, and (potentially, since he's a FA) Dennis Pitta is not good enough for the Ravens to be a dominant passing team, which they need to become in order to be long-term successful. That's my argument in a nutshell. On the other side, you could say that #1 that group IS good enough, OR #2 the Ravens don't need to become a dominant passing team, or #3 both.

I agree with most of your points here. Id say its good enough core to win with in a well balanced team (and we have), not good enough to be the reason we win solely (which is the inconsistency we see). I think an OC goes a long way in getting more out of what we have though. Ill continue to say so until we get somebody that calls more creative plays in a spread/WCO kind of way. If we get that and the same issues, ill start to say its the players. At the same time, id like them to add a WR somewhat early in the draft that could be that dominant #1 you speak of, easier said than done.

[Loyola]

Au Contraire!

Joe Flacco has 70 wins (9 playoff wins including 1 Superbowl win) and Matt Ryan has 60 wins (including 1 playoff win)

He hasn't disappeared, he just isn't winning a lot this year. His fantasy stats people still love him(except for all those ints). Still has 59 wins in 6 years, not too shabby(Flacco has 61 so far). Ryan is a product of a good receiving core and dome playing. He'll still throw a lot, but needs help like the Ravens. Just liked Flacco better because he hates to lose and give up. If his receiving team this year stays in Baltimore next year with a strong OLine, watch out. A new rusher would help also(Rice is done).

[trailhiker85]

I never really worried much about the Flacco-Ryan comparisons. They're both outstanding NFL QB's in their own way. I don't think Joe will ever have the regular season stats of a Ryan - and certainly not of a Brees or Rodgers - but Joe works within the system, roster, and philosophy that he's given. The results have been maddening at times and euphoric in others. But Joe has proven himself in the clutch. No one can take away last's year's playoff run and SB accomplishments from him.

I bear no ill will toward Matt Ryan, but do admit to an inward smile when I recall a post I read last winter just before the Super Bowl on the Falcoholic message board. Atlanta fans were still smarting over their NFCCG loss to SF, but one poster said he still hoped the 49ers would win the Super Bowl. I will paraphrase his post: "I don't want to see Flacco get a Super Bowl Ring before Ryan". So yeah, some of their fans may resent Joe a smidge.