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  1. #13

    Re: WRs ....the 2014 version



    Another guy I like maybe in the 3rd is Davante Adams out of Fresno State.

    He reminds me of a poor mans Justin Blackmon


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    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  2. #14

    Re: WRs ....the 2014 version

    I really like Jordan Matthews out of Vanderbilt. Guy has good size, nice hands and concentration.

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  3. #15

    Re: WRs ....the 2014 version

    Quote Originally Posted by OhThePossibilities View Post
    I really like Jordan Matthews out of Vanderbilt. Guy has good size, nice hands and concentration.

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    He's good.

    Reminds me of Jordy Nelson.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  4. #16

    Re: WRs ....the 2014 version

    Quote Originally Posted by Mizerooskie View Post
    Completely for reals. I can think of 4-5 guys off hand in this draft that are better at snatching the ball out of the air and/or attacking it at its high point.

    I think you're attributing greater ability to the guy than he actually has because he's a personall favorite. I think he's a poor man's Tavon Austin.
    Settle down...it's barely December and I've watched about 10% of the games or cut-ups that I have access to. Still, what makes you believe that Cooks is a personal favorite when I've clearly posted the most on Beckham Jr. (not that he's necessarily a "favorite" either).

    Attacking the ball puts no emphasis on high point. It's the balance of high point, catching the ball away from your frame and coming back to the ball. Focusing on any aspect, or all of them is fine, and I think Cooks does each of them very well--getting max value from his small frame and short arms--better than most, taller WRs I've watched over the past few years. The UWash game shows how his game suffers when he doesn't leverage this ability or when he simply gets thrown a bad ball. It's why I used the word "value".

    From the DraftBreakdown.com cut-ups, these show the balance.
    vs. ASU @ 4:02, 8:00 and 10:47
    vs. COL @ first play, 0:56 and 3:23
    vs. WAS @ 0:12 opportunity missed (poor effort IMO), 1:44 attempt (bad pass), 2:30, 2:52 and 5:54
    Back to the AFCCG we go. So get ready!

    Team MVP to-date: Rick Wagner and C.J. Mosley (tie)

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  5. #17
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    Re: WRs ....the 2014 version

    Quote Originally Posted by OhThePossibilities View Post
    I really like Jordan Matthews out of Vanderbilt. Guy has good size, nice hands and concentration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    He's good.

    Reminds me of Jordy Nelson.


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    I've been high on him since last year.

    That kind of production in the SEC with crap QB play should not go overlooked whatsoever.
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  6. #18
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    Re: WRs ....the 2014 version

    Right now I drank my top 5 like this:

    Mike Evans
    Sammy Watkins
    Jordan Matthews
    Marqise Lee
    Odell Beckham Jr

    I'd prob follow that group up with Brandin Cooks, Jarvis Landry and maybe Cody Hoffman.

    I really like the LSU boys. I wasn't super high on either of them, but they're flat out play makers.


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  7. #19

    Re: WRs ....the 2014 version

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Right now I drank my top 5 like this:

    Mike Evans
    Sammy Watkins
    Jordan Matthews
    Marqise Lee
    Odell Beckham Jr

    I'd prob follow that group up with Brandin Cooks, Jarvis Landry and maybe Cody Hoffman.

    I really like the LSU boys. I wasn't super high on either of them, but they're flat out play makers.


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    For me, I'd flip the first 2 and I still have Lee above Mathews. I'd change the order some, but I agree with the players you have there.

    I don't think we'd have any shot at Watkins at this point. I think he'll be the only WR to go in the top 10.

    We may have a shot at Evans in the 10-20 range depending on where we pick, how he runs. He probably will either be there if we don't make the playoffs, or within trade range (which I'd do if I were Ozzie provided the price isn't too high) if we are out in the playoffs quick.

    I think Lee is a late first so he'd probably be there if we wanted him.

    Mathews and Beckham probably are early to mid second rounders.

    Where do you see them going Wicked?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  8. #20

    Re: WRs ....the 2014 version

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    For me, I'd flip the first 2 and I still have Lee above Mathews. I'd change the order some, but I agree with the players you have there.

    I don't think we'd have any shot at Watkins at this point. I think he'll be the only WR to go in the top 10.

    We may have a shot at Evans in the 10-20 range depending on where we pick, how he runs. He probably will either be there if we don't make the playoffs, or within trade range (which I'd do if I were Ozzie provided the price isn't too high) if we are out in the playoffs quick.

    I think Lee is a late first so he'd probably be there if we wanted him.

    Mathews and Beckham probably are early to mid second rounders.

    Where do you see them going Wicked?


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    For me, it's Sammy Watkins and Mike Evans as the surefire 1st rounders. After them, Marqise Lee, Brandin Cooks, Davante Adams, and Allen Robinson are all late 1st/early 2nd round type guys. I'm not as high on the LSU guys or Jordan Matthews.

    IMO a 1st round receiver has to either A) have a very special, game-breaking element to his game, or B) be very, very pro ready right out of the gate. Examples of A's are AJ Green (special body control and fluidity for his size) or Percy Harvin (special physicality and ability with the ball in his hands). Examples of B's are DeAndre Hopkins or Santonio Holmes.

    I would be happy with Watkins, Evans, Lee, or Cooks in the 1st. All of those guys are A's, but Watkins is special because he's also a B--his route running and release off the line are already NFL quality, which are very unusual qualities in a college prospect. Evans, for example, is not a route runner at this point in his development, but he's still an A type receiver worthy of a 1st. Same for Lee and Cooks, who are really similar players, both of them more Percy Harvin types.




  9. #21

    Re: WRs ....the 2014 version

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    For me, it's Sammy Watkins and Mike Evans as the surefire 1st rounders. After them, Marqise Lee, Brandin Cooks, Davante Adams, and Allen Robinson are all late 1st/early 2nd round type guys. I'm not as high on the LSU guys or Jordan Matthews.

    IMO a 1st round receiver has to either A) have a very special, game-breaking element to his game, or B) be very, very pro ready right out of the gate. Examples of A's are AJ Green (special body control and fluidity for his size) or Percy Harvin (special physicality and ability with the ball in his hands). Examples of B's are DeAndre Hopkins or Santonio Holmes.

    I would be happy with Watkins, Evans, Lee, or Cooks in the 1st. All of those guys are A's, but Watkins is special because he's also a B--his route running and release off the line are already NFL quality, which are very unusual qualities in a college prospect. Evans, for example, is not a route runner at this point in his development, but he's still an A type receiver worthy of a 1st. Same for Lee and Cooks, who are really similar players, both of them more Percy Harvin types.
    I hear you. There are just naturally going to be a difference of opinions on them after the first 3...Watkins, Evans and Lee.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  10. #22

    Re: WRs ....the 2014 version

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    Settle down...it's barely December and I've watched about 10% of the games or cut-ups that I have access to. Still, what makes you believe that Cooks is a personal favorite when I've clearly posted the most on Beckham Jr. (not that he's necessarily a "favorite" either).

    Attacking the ball puts no emphasis on high point. It's the balance of high point, catching the ball away from your frame and coming back to the ball. Focusing on any aspect, or all of them is fine, and I think Cooks does each of them very well--getting max value from his small frame and short arms--better than most, taller WRs I've watched over the past few years. The UWash game shows how his game suffers when he doesn't leverage this ability or when he simply gets thrown a bad ball. It's why I used the word "value".

    From the DraftBreakdown.com cut-ups, these show the balance.
    vs. ASU @ 4:02, 8:00 and 10:47
    vs. COL @ first play, 0:56 and 3:23
    vs. WAS @ 0:12 opportunity missed (poor effort IMO), 1:44 attempt (bad pass), 2:30, 2:52 and 5:54
    I'm perfectly settled. I got the impression Cooks is a personal favorite by the over-exuberant classification of him as attacking the ball as good as anyone you've ever seen. I don't know if that's hyperbole or just exaggeration, but it struck me as odd.

    I get what attacking the ball means. Put simply, it's snatching the ball out of the air wherever it's thrown, rather than letting it come to you. As I said before, I wouldn't even put him in the top-5 of this draft class in that aspect. He's absolutely at or near the top in elusiveness and speed. I don't see anything particularly special about those clips in terms of his ability to attack the ball. I see a guy who's incredibly quick and shifty with solid hands.




  11. #23
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    Re: WRs ....the 2014 version

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    For me, I'd flip the first 2 and I still have Lee above Mathews. I'd change the order some, but I agree with the players you have there.

    I don't think we'd have any shot at Watkins at this point. I think he'll be the only WR to go in the top 10.

    We may have a shot at Evans in the 10-20 range depending on where we pick, how he runs. He probably will either be there if we don't make the playoffs, or within trade range (which I'd do if I were Ozzie provided the price isn't too high) if we are out in the playoffs quick.

    I think Lee is a late first so he'd probably be there if we wanted him.

    Mathews and Beckham probably are early to mid second rounders.

    Where do you see them going Wicked?


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    Honestly?

    I'm not entirely sure.

    This draft is going to be bizarre. Mike Evans and Sammy Watkins are absolutely two of the "elite" players - regardless of position - yet we all know that since the rookie wage scale was enacted, a lot of teams aren't simply gunning for the best player available. Furthermore, this is such a QB-driven league nowadays, I think there will be a number of teams looking to trade back up into round 1 and take a QB that probably shouldn't be a 1st rounder at all.

    I have three QBs who are (IMO) 1st round prospects:
    Teddy Bridgewater, Zach MEttenberger, Marcus Mariota & Derek Carr.

    All four of those guys have big time arms and two of them have outstanding athleticism.

    Then I have the 2nd tier, which are guys like Brett Hundley, Tajh Boyd, Johnny Manzeil, David Fales, Blake Bortles, etc.

    The problem is I could see teams passing on one of the 4 QBs noted above, but trading back up and picking up a 2nd tier guy. There are also quite a bit of elite pass rushers and offensive line prospects in this draft.

    All of that was to say that I could see some of the guys being pushed down the draft boards.

    I see Sammy Watkins and Mike Evans coming off in the 8-15 range. Most of those teams have established quarterbacks or guys they are going to likely hang their hat on (Rams, Steelers, Giants, Titans, etc).

    Guys like Jordan Matthews, Marqise Lee, Jarvis Landry, Brandin Cooks, Odell Beckham are (IMO) going to be late 1st round to the middle of the 3rd.
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  12. #24
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    Re: WRs ....the 2014 version

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    For me, it's Sammy Watkins and Mike Evans as the surefire 1st rounders. After them, Marqise Lee, Brandin Cooks, Davante Adams, and Allen Robinson are all late 1st/early 2nd round type guys. I'm not as high on the LSU guys or Jordan Matthews.

    IMO a 1st round receiver has to either A) have a very special, game-breaking element to his game, or B) be very, very pro ready right out of the gate. Examples of A's are AJ Green (special body control and fluidity for his size) or Percy Harvin (special physicality and ability with the ball in his hands). Examples of B's are DeAndre Hopkins or Santonio Holmes.

    I would be happy with Watkins, Evans, Lee, or Cooks in the 1st. All of those guys are A's, but Watkins is special because he's also a B--his route running and release off the line are already NFL quality, which are very unusual qualities in a college prospect. Evans, for example, is not a route runner at this point in his development, but he's still an A type receiver worthy of a 1st. Same for Lee and Cooks, who are really similar players, both of them more Percy Harvin types.
    I too like Allen Robinson. I think he is similar to Jordan Matthews. Might be a little better with straight line speed.
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