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11-21-2013, 02:38 PM #73Veteran Poster
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Re: Should Tyrod Taylor be included more often?
Since different men have different skill sets, there exist no such "best 11 men" in any offense that attempts to be creative. We already run in more than 11 guys as it is. You think we are making a mistake doing it?
And again, Tyrod would be the "best" man if we are looking for a guy who can run and throw the ball on our team. What you are saying is you can't imagine a play where having a guy that can run the ball and throw the ball would be helpful. That is the problem.
And there is 0% chance putting Tyrod in for a couple plays per game to change things up "undermines" Flacco at all. Sounds like you don't have the same opinion of Flacco's character that I do.
As for trick plays. You use them when your offensive line can't block. If your offensive line could block, you could drive down the field with your less mobile QB, running predictable plays, and scoring enough points to win. Trick plays are a way to "win" on a play with your brain, when you can't "win" consistently with your body.
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11-21-2013, 02:38 PM #74
Re: Should Tyrod Taylor be included more often?
And what you do not seem to understand is that the more times he sees the playing field the less effective he becomes. He, like the play is a gimmick, which is why the wildcat is dead. He had his nice 1 play, it will not be effective any more as it is on tape now. You can try and make new plays for him all you want but it is a gimmick offense and nothing we dream up will be anything different than what the D's we play have already seen. Last year (or year before) we ran a fake field goal for a TD, why don't we try that 4 times a game too if we are going to just have the team run madden plays?
I'm not saying this team could not be more creative on offense, I'm saying that using Tyrod is not the answer to becoming more creative and a more dynamic offense.Hating Steeler Fans Since Birth
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Lets Go Flacco :happyanim
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11-21-2013, 02:55 PM #75Veteran Poster
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Re: Should Tyrod Taylor be included more often?
No one is re-inventing the wheel here.
And all I am talking about (can't speak for others) is 'once or twice' a game.
He has been in once and the play gained 18 yards. Whether the reverse could have gained the same or more if run by one of our WRs, who knows? But the WR would be less able to stop, step back and throw the ball, if the defense charged the line after the pitch/handoff.
No doubt the defense can have a plan to defend such plays. They simply require the defense to be on their toes to more possible variations. The defense also has plans to defend standard runs and passes and are doing a damn good job of it against our standard plays.
I am certainly not arguing we are neglecting a Holy Grail here.
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11-21-2013, 03:02 PM #76Veteran Poster
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Re: Should Tyrod Taylor be included more often?
I understand perfectly. You are arguing against a strawman.
And the wildcat isn't dead at all. It is still used as a change up. And successfully. In fact it was used against us successfully this year. It is dead as run-every-play-because-your-QB-sucks offense. And even then, only because defenses started playing extra heavy run defense (wildcat just gives you an extra blocker in lieu of the QB anyway).
Obviously he gets less effective the more he goes out there, which is why it is limited to 2-3 times per game. Not per series. And you can easily vary such plays with a guy like Tyrod to accommodate 2-3 plays per game. You can even set the defense up if you are smart by making them think they know what the variation will be based on previous week's film.
It also sounds like you are assuming that a failed "creative" play is somehow different or more-damaging than one of the two dozen failed "standard" and predictable plays we run every game.
Tyrod isn't "the" answer to anything. He is "a" way to be creative, make the defense use their brains (more than we currently do), and possibly catch them napping for a big play.
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11-21-2013, 03:11 PM #77
Re: Should Tyrod Taylor be included more often?
Your definition of success is much different than mine. You think Pitt ran the wildcat against us successfully? What did they have 4 plays for about 15 yds? What teams are running the wildcat successfully in the NFL anymore? It is nothing more than a gimmick just like RG3 and Cap, how are they performing now that NFL defenses had time to scout? Sorry but Tyrod is not the answer to becoming more creative at all! This is no different than when people wanted Troy in for special packages because he was supposedly so athletic, howd that work out and he was a Heisman winner.
Hating Steeler Fans Since Birth
Section 126, Row 33
Lets Go Flacco :happyanim
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Re: Should Tyrod Taylor be included more often?
I think that play had a lot less to do with Tyrod than the play call itself. I think it would have been successful if we had anybody in there to run the same play. We can use it as its really his only contribution so far this season but its incredibly misleading when his career average before that was 5. I dont see defenses changing how they guard him or being caught off guard. the upside of him vs a guy thats better at the position he comes in at is where im stuck. I just dont see him as a better player or offering anything other that a better version of the HB option.
-JAB
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11-21-2013, 03:54 PM #79Veteran Poster
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Re: Should Tyrod Taylor be included more often?
My definition of success is simply a successful play.
The Steelers ran the wildcat on 3rd and 2, and gained 6 yards. Success. You are the one saying the wildcat is "dead" whatever that means.
As for you fixating on the issue of teams "running the wildcat" successfully, I remind you we aren't talking about "running the wildcat." We are talking about 2-3 change-up plays per game.
As for Troy Smith, we barely used him at all. And there were certainly successful plays. The 43 yard completion to Flacco comes to mind. And there were no disastrous plays that I recall.
But even that comparison doesn't fly because the Ravens' offense was nowhere near as inept as it is now, and more importantly we were not losing games in which a single big play might have turned the tide. Suffice it to say, if our offense was ranked in the middle of the pack and we were multiple games above .500, I would see a much lesser need to try to "catch" the defense off-guard for a big play.
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11-21-2013, 04:17 PM #80
Re: Should Tyrod Taylor be included more often?
2-3 plays a game is 2-3 plays too many. He is a backup QB, period. As I stated earlier he is a below avg QB, subpar RB and bad WR, he brings no value to field, defenses will not be fooled by a gimmick play that has been run a million times since 2010, it is a wasted play. If you want creativity on O draw up better plays that allow the best 11 on the field that will result in large gains and hopefully TD's, Tyrod is never one of the best 11 including 2-3 times a game.
Hating Steeler Fans Since Birth
Section 126, Row 33
Lets Go Flacco :happyanim
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11-21-2013, 04:25 PM #81Veteran Poster
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Re: Should Tyrod Taylor be included more often?
All of this has already been addressed.
He can throw better than WRs and RBs and run better than our QB.
Defenses will not be fooled, except when they are.
We are talking about many different kinds of plays, not the imaginary single play you keep fixating on that has "been run a million times since 2010."
Our offense sucks ass, and a single big play could have won a couple more games. Heck, the flea-flicker, despite the blatant underthrow, resulted in a rare TD for our offense, and we won the game by the skin of our teeth.
And yes, Tyrod is one of the best 11, assuming one of the 11 is supposed to create a run-pass option that will keep the defense on their toes.
And an incompletion or zero yard gain is not only not the end of the world, it would be lost in the crowd of incompletions and zero yard gains our offense routinely puts up in its current form.
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11-21-2013, 04:45 PM #82
Re: Should Tyrod Taylor be included more often?
At this point after 10 games...everyone and his mother KNOWS our Oline is a huge problem and our play design is ONCE AGAIN prehistoric.
But I will say I have NO CLUE as to what the coaching staff is thinking (if they are thinking at all) every Sunday.
It does appear they don't see what we see.
And I don't know how that will change.
The Ravens currently have the 30th ranked offense.
We didn't have that when everyone on the planet knew we were just going to hand off to Jamal every play.
So, I figure the offensive coaches don't know what to do, which means they will continue to do the same thing.
The offensive scheme handicaps our players, so each player has to win his one on one battle every freaking play inspite of the play design failures. That's not going to happen for the Ravens.
They will have to change what they have been doing since training camp.
What do you think the odds of that happening are?
I think the odds are way better that the Steelers win the division than the Ravens changing the way they block upfront leading to holes to run through and time for Joe to throw with plays that are reworked to get our receivers open by design. I want them to prove me wrong and shut me up.
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11-21-2013, 05:07 PM #83Veteran Poster
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Re: Should Tyrod Taylor be included more often?
Our offense is actually ranked 31st in yards per play. Our defense just gives it more plays than some of the other teams' offenses get (per game).
And even worse, it is only a single tenth of a yard per play better than Jacksonville at #32, and two tenths behind #30. So closer to last than to 30th.
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Re: Should Tyrod Taylor be included more often?
He is not a weapon, he by far worse than ANY of our other wide receivers, he is a back up QB. End of discussion. He runs the scout offense for the D and if needed, plays mop up (hahaha, made myself laugh) or in the event of an injury to Joe.
But I get your angle Joe, I used to be a blogger, throw anything against the wall, see if it sticks and you create traffic, well played but conceptually foolish when the team needs to focus on simple blocking before getting cute.
Dude, sound logic. But it falls on deaf ears because people want 'juice'. Juice would come if defenders weren't in Flacco's face .09 seconds after "Hike".
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