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  1. #31

    Re: Marc Trestman knows his crap



    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    It makes sense if you consider that the Bears probably liked their chances against the run with no fullback, one non blocking TE (Clark) and 3 WRs in the game. They probably also liked their chances against the pass in a short area, since the Ravens don't show much ability to score from the pass deep in the red zone.

    Don't know if Trestman exactly said it, but I think he did, that he didn't want to give the Ravens a free chance to put their jumbo group out there.
    Trestman said:

    "So really only the first time where I considered really calling a timeout was after Ray Rice had the 11-yard run to the 5-yard line. And he took that ball, probably, I think it was about at 1:16 when he had that ball. That was the first time. I was down there with the official. That was the first time. But when you put ... the numbers all together, if you call three timeouts right there in succession, you’re still only getting the ball back at 18 seconds, OK? If you let it run, they’re in a two-minute mode, OK? And now they’ve got to call two timeouts, so a couple things come into the play with their using their two timeouts.

    No. 1, they didn’t call a timeout on the first one, which means they had to call a play out of their two-minute package instead of using their red-zone package. So that’s No. 1. They didn’t call a timeout and get into different personnel groupings to call the play."
    Let's see:

    1) The Ravens didn't call timeout after Rice's run to the 5 because they didn't have to; it would only have helped the Bears. They had plenty of time left on the clock, with their two timeouts, to run up to four plays. And there were 45 seconds between the snap for Rice's 11-yard run and the snap for the 1st and goal play, which is more than enough time to get whatever group they wanted onto the field, and makes it clear that they were NOT forced to stay in their two-minute offense.

    2) The Ravens then used their two timeouts after 1st and 2nd down, again giving them the opportunity to get the package they wanted onto the field.

    3) There would have been 18 seconds left if, and only if, the Ravens ran the ball or completed a pass three consecutive times without scoring, and unless the Ravens decided to go for it on 4th down, the Bears still get into overtime.

    • A TD on 1st down leaves the Bears 1:10 and two timeouts
    • A TD on 2nd down leaves them at least 1:00 and one timeout.
    • An incomplete pass on 1st or 2nd down, and a TD on 3rd down still gives them around 50 seconds and one timeout
    • Three runs and a TD on 3rd down leaves them 45 seconds

    While it's certainly possible that the Ravens would have run three times, you don't assume that will be the outcome and keep your timeouts in your pocket.

    He cooked up a great explanation, but if the Ravens had scored on that 3rd down pass, he'd have gotten crucified, with good reason. The only advantage the Bears gained was that the Ravens had to throw on 3rd down, but chances are they would have done that anyway. Another potential advantage would have been giving the Ravens extra plays if a defensive penalty gave them a first down, but who strategizes based on that? I remember watching football back in the 60's, when coaches would actually let the clock run out while they were trailing and on defense instead of using their timeouts. Strange, but true. I thought I'd been transported back 50 years.
    Last edited by moose10101; 11-19-2013 at 02:12 PM.
    I've upped my standards. Up yours.




  2. #32

    Re: Marc Trestman knows his crap

    I would have been more impressed if he said that he believed his team would not allow the Ravens to score a TD.
    His explanation is simply over-analysis to cover up a mistake in strategy. You should always try to leave yourself another chance to win the game. No matter how small the percentage is.




  3. #33
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    Re: Marc Trestman knows his crap

    Quote Originally Posted by blah3 View Post
    I would have been more impressed if he said that he believed his team would not allow the Ravens to score a TD.
    His explanation is simply over-analysis to cover up a mistake in strategy. You should always try to leave yourself another chance to win the game. No matter how small the percentage is.
    I completely agree with you. At the point of the 1st and 5, and that your defense has not even slowed them down. You have to give your defense a chance to get some air and try to regroup and stop the Ravens AND give your team a chance if the Ravens do score.
    Heck, what if after the Ravens only get a field goal, your offense has a minute left to move the ball and kick a field goal of your own...to win.




  4. #34

    Re: Marc Trestman knows his crap

    It doesn't matter what Trestman's strategy was. We screwed the pooch 2 yards from victory and then "Mr. SB Winning Coach" takes the ball in a hurricane and expects to accomplish what he just failed at. You kick there, count on your defense to at least hold them to 3 and then all you need is a FG to keep the game going. If the D stops them and forces a punt, a FG wins it. I think most of the fans had this figured out at the coin flip.




  5. #35
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    Re: Marc Trestman knows his crap

    I don't know if I agree with Trestman, but I sure as hell respect that he thought the decision through and then was able to explain the exact thought process.

    Damn friendly Canadians.




  6. #36
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    Re: Marc Trestman knows his crap

    Quote Originally Posted by moose10101 View Post
    1) The Ravens didn't call timeout after Rice's run to the 5 because they didn't have to; it would only have helped the Bears. They had plenty of time left on the clock, with their two timeouts, to run up to four plays. And there were 45 seconds between the snap for Rice's 11-yard run and the snap for the 1st and goal play, which is more than enough time to get whatever group they wanted onto the field, and makes it clear that they were NOT forced to stay in their two-minute offense.

    2) The Ravens then used their two timeouts after 1st and 2nd down, again giving them the opportunity to get the package they wanted onto the field.
    This makes sense. Trestman could not have known that the Ravens would not change personnel. And they could have done it without using a timeout.

    So as it turns out, the Ravens locked themselves into that 3 wide group, but nothing about the sequence of events suggested that they were forced to. I agree -- Trestman should have used his timeouts there.




  7. #37

    Re: Marc Trestman knows his crap

    Quote Originally Posted by moose10101 View Post
    Trestman said:



    Let's see:

    1) The Ravens didn't call timeout after Rice's run to the 5 because they didn't have to; it would only have helped the Bears. They had plenty of time left on the clock, with their two timeouts, to run up to four plays. And there were 45 seconds between the snap for Rice's 11-yard run and the snap for the 1st and goal play, which is more than enough time to get whatever group they wanted onto the field, and makes it clear that they were NOT forced to stay in their two-minute offense.

    2) The Ravens then used their two timeouts after 1st and 2nd down, again giving them the opportunity to get the package they wanted onto the field.

    3) There would have been 18 seconds left if, and only if, the Ravens ran the ball or completed a pass three consecutive times without scoring, and unless the Ravens decided to go for it on 4th down, the Bears still get into overtime.

    • A TD on 1st down leaves the Bears 1:10 and two timeouts
    • A TD on 2nd down leaves them at least 1:00 and one timeout.
    • An incomplete pass on 1st or 2nd down, and a TD on 3rd down still gives them around 50 seconds and one timeout
    • Three runs and a TD on 3rd down leaves them 45 seconds

    While it's certainly possible that the Ravens would have run three times, you don't assume that will be the outcome and keep your timeouts in your pocket.

    He cooked up a great explanation, but if the Ravens had scored on that 3rd down pass, he'd have gotten crucified, with good reason. The only advantage the Bears gained was that the Ravens had to throw on 3rd down, but chances are they would have done that anyway. Another potential advantage would have been giving the Ravens extra plays if a defensive penalty gave them a first down, but who strategizes based on that? I remember watching football back in the 60's, when coaches would actually let the clock run out while they were trailing and on defense instead of using their timeouts. Strange, but true. I thought I'd been transported back 50 years.
    Hi Ravens fans. I apologize for bringing up a thread that has been buried for a few days now. I wanted to discuss it earlier but it took a few days to be approved.

    I primarily post on a Bears board, not to be an instigator, I lived in Chicago for 12 years, anyways. But I found this place because I was sick of discussing this topic with Bears fans. They make me want to ram my head into a wall, a thick concrete wall, repeatedly, because of this subject.

    95% of them think Trestman was a genius for this decision because he made a 2 minute explanation about it citing a percentage that had nothing to do with not using timeouts with 1st and goal and over a minute left. "It’s a leap of faith. They went all the way down the field. Three points yes. Tied the game. Seven points? We’re talking 13 percent." Trestman, 13% doesn't apply anymore. This is simple probability. You are the genius?

    It's frustrating to hear someone like Trestman be so openly foolish and then get praised by fans and media for his brilliance because he got lucky and won. Are the fans and media really that naive?

    I again apologize for bringing up a thread that has run its course. This is just a topic that is sitting very poorly with me and I finally got approved to comment here.




  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packer Fan View Post
    Hi Ravens fans. I apologize for bringing up a thread that has been buried for a few days now. I wanted to discuss it earlier but it took a few days to be approved. I primarily post on a Bears board, not to be an instigator, I lived in Chicago for 12 years, anyways. But I found this place because I was sick of discussing this topic with Bears fans. They make me want to ram my head into a wall, a thick concrete wall, repeatedly, because of this subject. 95% of them think Trestman was a genius for this decision because he made a 2 minute explanation about it citing a percentage that had nothing to do with not using timeouts with 1st and goal and over a minute left. "It’s a leap of faith. They went all the way down the field. Three points yes. Tied the game. Seven points? We’re talking 13 percent." Trestman, 13% doesn't apply anymore. This is simple probability. You are the genius? It's frustrating to hear someone like Trestman be so openly foolish and then get praised by fans and media for his brillianc because he got lucky and won. Are the fans and media really that naive? I again apologize for bringing up a thread that has run its course. This is just a topic that is sitting very poorly with me and I finally got approved to comment here.
    Welcome!

    I think every coach has an explanation for every decision they make. You don't get to be a head coach if you are a complete idiot. But most fans evaluate decisions (erroneously IMO) based on outcome.

    If a decision works, whatever rationale you throw out is sound. If it doesn't, any explanation you give is considered so much BS.
    "Leave. Your. Mark."




  9. #39

    Re: Marc Trestman knows his crap

    If Gino snaps the ball to Joe, instead of into the mud, it's game over. Sorry...I wasn't impressed by Trestman's non-use of the TOs at all. Talking about someone [almost] out-thinking himself.




  10. #40

    Re: Marc Trestman knows his crap

    Quote Originally Posted by Packer Fan View Post
    I again apologize for bringing up a thread that has run its course. This is just a topic that is sitting very poorly with me and I finally got approved to comment here.
    No problem. Trestman screwed the pooch, but managed to baffle them with BS. Sometimes (most times?) that's better than using the right strategy and losing.

    And welcome to the board.
    I've upped my standards. Up yours.




  11. #41
    iggyman555 Guest

    Re: Marc Trestman knows his crap

    Quote Originally Posted by Packer Fan View Post
    Hi Ravens fans. I apologize for bringing up a thread that has been buried for a few days now. I wanted to discuss it earlier but it took a few days to be approved.

    I primarily post on a Bears board, not to be an instigator, I lived in Chicago for 12 years, anyways. But I found this place because I was sick of discussing this topic with Bears fans. They make me want to ram my head into a wall, a thick concrete wall, repeatedly, because of this subject.

    95% of them think Trestman was a genius for this decision because he made a 2 minute explanation about it citing a percentage that had nothing to do with not using timeouts with 1st and goal and over a minute left. "It’s a leap of faith. They went all the way down the field. Three points yes. Tied the game. Seven points? We’re talking 13 percent." Trestman, 13% doesn't apply anymore. This is simple probability. You are the genius?

    It's frustrating to hear someone like Trestman be so openly foolish and then get praised by fans and media for his brilliance because he got lucky and won. Are the fans and media really that naive?

    I again apologize for bringing up a thread that has run its course. This is just a topic that is sitting very poorly with me and I finally got approved to comment here.

    you should hear some of the shit harbaugh makes up after making terrible coaching decision




  12. #42
    iggyman555 Guest

    Re: Marc Trestman knows his crap

    is he still a genius? LOL


    Rich Campbell @Rich_Campbell
    Bears played a lot of 8-man fronts today b/c they knew Rams wanted to run, Chris Conte said. That makes the totals seem even worse.




  13. #43
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    Re: Marc Trestman knows his crap

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    If Gino snaps the ball to Joe, instead of into the mud, it's game over. Sorry...I wasn't impressed by Trestman's non-use of the TOs at all. Talking about someone [almost] out-thinking himself.
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