The Ravens need an Entirely New Offensive System and Philosophy Part II.

[wickedsolo]

Joe-Lom-Bardi


*clap clap clapclapclap*

seconded.

[wickedsolo]

About Cam - you can't compare college to the NFL. I think college is a great place for Cam and I think his offense will work very well in college. Clearly, he has turned Zach Mettenberg into a possible round 1 pick.

Regarding the Ravens offense...

I hate to quote Bryant McKinnie, but I feel he is spot on when he said the following:

"They bought the Ferrari (Joe) and now they have to pay for the insurance."

Granted, he was referring to himself, but I think that they are trying to make a Ferrari run on shitty tires, crappy low grade fuel and less than optimal insurance policies.

They invested in Joe. Now, they need to invest in the offense because they are the only unit who is going to win more championships.


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[Kyle Cactus]

Did you have to quote Wikipedia?

It provided a clear, well worded explanation, so why wouldn't I?

The reason I posted it is because I explained this idea on the similar thread you posted last week, which I assume you read since you responded to my post, and then in the opening of this thread ...

The system is an aged system too heavily reliant on extended pass protection for the deeper throws. They need a quick passing system with vertical elements based off of it. That's why the Ravens short passing game struggles. That's why they struggle when they try WR screens (rarely), because that's not what the system emphasizes. Yes, the plays are in the system to be called, but you are going to practice more of what you emphasize.

I'm not trying to be critical. It just helps to propose/debate ideas if people use correct/consistent terminology. I used to make the same mistake myself until I saw someone on this forum point it out.

...

Anyway, I think you and others have legitimate concerns about the types of plays we call. I've made my arguments about why I don't think changing OC is the best answer at this time.

Others have pointed out that maybe Harbs is the source of the issue more than Caldwell. Who knows. I just don't like the idea of having 3 different OCs in 3 seasons. Sometimes change is warranted, but continuous change just leads to a lack of proficiency in your system at all times. Sometimes you have to give new leadership time to get it right.

If you think the "system" also needs to change then I'd be curious as to why you feel that way. Given that you can use the current system to implement any offensive philosophy, I'd think it would be preferable to at least have continuity in terminology. But if you are interested in ideas for changing the system, here's an interesting article.

Basically it makes the case that the Erhardt-Perkins offense allows for more efficient communication of a play, and that this is to the benefit of teams running a quick no-huddle attack. Personally I think any system is viable for this. Maybe if you were starting from scratch with a new QB and you new you wanted to do a lot of quick no huddle than this would be the way to go, but I don't think it would be worth temporarily disrupting proficiency with your current system if you already had a QB in place.

[Kyle Cactus]

It's not that he didn't know offense. He did. It's not that his schemes weren't viable. They were.

His problem was he was a one dimensional human being, a geek who studied his ass off and learned every X and O in the universe, but didn't know how to read a real live situation. He was like a guy who read a bunch of books about poker, but couldn't handle being at a table with live players who were better at bluffing, disguising their intentions, and willing to go with what their eyes were telling them rather than only what the book says. That is why he maxed out his value in the NFL.

I think this is the most convincing, and fair, theory on Cam's struggles hear that I've ever seen.

[JustaslowZ06]

Really I don't think we need a new OC. But Caldwell needs to figure out what he wants to do. The offense we saw in the playoffs isn't being run now. This team has zero identity. Pick and rubs quick slants and screens that we saw in the playoffs. Not to mention the back shoulder throws to Boldin for TDs. We're not really running any of them. We defiantly either need to give Castillo full control and draft or pick up FA players that he wants to fit his system. And we need a new WR coach cause Hostller has been a bum everywhere and here is no different.

Bottom line. Castillo. Caldwell. The new Wr coach and joe all need to sit down after this season and figure out their gameplan and draft and pick up the players we need. Yanda KO and Monroe will be back. We need a new center and figure out who Castillo wants at RT.

[Jsmoove]

if we do get a new OC Harbaugh needs to leave his philosophy at the door.

[blah3]

While the premise all sounds well and good, the argument that the team absolutely must change schemes, is belied by the fact that the team just won the SB with it.

[blah3]

The problem is John Harbaugh. He brought Cam in here to run 3 yards and a cloud of dust, throw deep off play action, and keep everything outside the numbers where it probably won't be picked off. .

You mean Ozzie Newsome brought in Cam Cameron.

[dscola31]

I think many underestimate the impact that Joe Flacco's pinpoint throwing and risk taking both have on the offense, from a positive standpoint. Of Joe Flacco's thirteen touchdown passes, how many of them have been thrown to wide open targets? The only one that I can think of was the touchdown pass to Dallas Clark at Heinz Field. Of those same thirteen, how many of them were even thrown to a considerably open target? I mean, really think about this. How many touchdown passes has Joe Flacco thrown where he didn't have to make a pinpoint accurate throw?

Honestly, I believe that Flacco has had more pinpoint accurate TD pass attempts dropped than he's had considerably open TD pass attempts.

PurpleApocalypse also brought up the touchdown pass that he threw to Dallas Clark versus the Bengals. Again, looking at that situation, Flacco was darn near out of bounds when he threw it and he did so between two, if not three defenders. Anybody looking at that play who would pause it before he made that throw, would determine that he had no business making that throw and should have threw the ball away to preserve the three points. There was nothing in that situation, pre-pass attempt, that showed he should have actually made the pass.

This is why we constantly hear that Joe Flacco can look exceptional one minute and mistake prone the next minute. This is why Flacco is constantly taking chances on such throws, because he has to take such chances for this offense to even stand a chance, because there would be a lot more third down conversions and points taken away, than turnovers, if he didn't take these chances.

When you present Joe with an offense where he doesn't have to constantly make crazy accurate throws to stand any chance of success than maybe he won't take so many chances.

This.

[dscola31]

You mean Ozzie Newsome brought in Cam Cameron.

Apparantly Harbs also didn't want Rex or Pags and doesn't play rookies.

Ozzie is responsible for the make up of this team. Harbaugh has input but Ozzie has final say.

People want to blame him and Flacco for Ozzies missteps in regard to the offense.

[bensmotorcyclehelmt]

The problem IMO is Caldwell is still using Cam's playbook, instead of tailoring the offense to the talent and skillset on the roster, he's just adding a few plays here and there.

I don't know that Caldwell is a particularly creative playcaller or not, as he's never done it for an extended period. I liked some of the things I saw with Tyrod and the overloaded line. But that was the extent of creativity that I've seen. And all that disappeared this past week. Otherwise there are no unique formaitons, different groupings, (Rice and Pierce on the field at the same time?) etc etc.

Pat Kerwin stated that teams use trick plays when they dont have a lot of playmakers, to create opportuunities for success that might not otherwise be there.

Remember when Cam would throw out the trick play During Flacco's rookie year? Look at that roster. Not overly talented. Derrick Mason and Heap were our top receiving threats. Both solid receivers but far from dynamic game changers.

The current Ravens team could benefit from some of those fabricated opportunities.

[pslholder96]

You mean Ozzie Newsome brought in Cam Cameron.

You have a link for that?