Serious question

**BIGBALL** · 11-11-2013, 08:55 AM

Can someone tell me when the last time they saw a wide open receiver- somewhere Joe didn't have to stick a ball between defenders in a window the size of a postage stamp? Is it the quality of our receivers? The scheme? Maybe just the fact that we are playing good defenses? The fact that the Ravens have no running game and teams know it so they can take away throwing lanes? O-line not giving enough time to get open? I personally think it's a combination of all the above. I watched bits and pieces of other games, and I see guys open with no one within 5-10 yards of them, and I just shake my head. I'll be the first to say that Joe has been a bit off, but the fact that every pass has to be fit into a tight window has to be tough, and eventually those throws are going to lead to a low completion % and interceptions.

I have my theories, but I am interested in hearing from you guys...

**Gabrosin** · 11-11-2013, 09:00 AM

Defenses use more zone concepts against teams with more talented QBs/WRs, because those players have proven they can beat man coverage.

Our players can't.

**HKusp** · 11-11-2013, 09:09 AM

I was at the game yesterday and there were plenty of open receivers all day. For some reason, Flacco was locked in to Torrey and was forcing throws to him. Marlon Brown and Tandon Doss were open many times, but Flacco did not go their way.

**Dade** · 11-11-2013, 09:26 AM

As you said it a combination of all of the above. Plus I think Joe is off as of late because the OLine has been getting him hammered. He's lacking confidence in the amount of time he'll have in the pocket, leading him to locking onto his primary read. Defenses has recognized this and will play tight coverage on the 1st and 2nd reads, creating tiny windows to throw in. This is possibly why he's deep ball has been off target as well. Joe is highly regarded as the best deep ball thrower in the league. But this year he's rushing it because he knows the next split second he's gonna get hit. We've all seen when Joe has time he will pick apart any defense in the NFL.

**JohnBKistler** · 11-11-2013, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by BIGBALL

Can someone tell me when the last time they saw a wide open receiver- somewhere Joe didn't have to stick a ball between defenders in a window the size of a postage stamp?

Yes. Yesterday's second drive when Jacoby Jones beat his man by a couple of steps and Flacco underthrew him.

**Bawlamer** · 11-11-2013, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by HKusp

I was at the game yesterday and there were plenty of open receivers all day. For some reason, Flacco was locked in to Torrey and was forcing throws to him. Marlon Brown and Tandon Doss were open many times, but Flacco did not go their way.

It's not the receivers! Joe is seriously off and not seeing open receivers. Harbaugh put things in Joe's hands. From now forward the onus is on Joe.

**Ravens2006** · 11-11-2013, 09:47 AM

The Ravens WR corps, as a whole, is still very flawed. Torrey Smith puts up big numbers, but doesn't run consistent routes. The missed TD on the long ball in the endzone was a perfect example... he misjudged the flight of the ball and put a little (unnecessary) hitch in his route at the last second... all it did was take the ball out of his reach. Jones tries to cradle everything and doesn't use his hands... that's why so many throws his way get knocked away easily. DBs have more time to close and punch it out. Brown is showing good hands and has some upside, but is still learning. Dickson can't catch, and Clark can barely run. The rest, cannon fodder that occasionally makes a play if the defense ignores them.

**BIGBALL** · 11-11-2013, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by JohnBKistler

Yes. Yesterday's second drive when Jacoby Jones beat his man by a couple of steps and Flacco underthrew him.

True John... but then again, isn't that where it was still a 45 yard pass in a windy stadium? Not saying he shouldn't have made the throw - just saying it wasn't easy. I'm talking about quick hitters, slants, etc. I should have been more clear. Regardless, unless they can run the ball and receivers can beat press coverage, things are pretty much going to remain the same IMO...

**Ravens2006** · 11-11-2013, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by BIGBALL

...I'm talking about quick hitters, slants, etc. I should have been more clear. Regardless, unless they can run the ball and receivers can beat press coverage, things are pretty much going to remain the same IMO...

I'm always puzzled how difficult it is for the Ravens to score TDs through the air without Joe being required to throw the TD *IN* to the endzone.

Of Peyton's 4 TDs yesterday, three of them were as follows...

Julius Thomas - caught 4 yards past LOS - 74 yard TD
Demaryius Thomas - caught 3 yards behind LOS - 34 yard TD
Demaryius Thomas - caught 4 yards past LOS - 11 yard TD

Net passing there, relative to the LOS, is +5 yards. But they wound up getting 119 yards and 3 TDs out of those 3 short passes, with the receiving targets making guys miss after the catch, tiptoeing the sideline, and weaving through / around traffic to finish the play. 1/3 of Peyton's yardage on the day, and 3 of his 4 TD passes, were largely thanks to receivers making things happen after catching three short passes.

It's the same thing the Giants excelled at with Cruz and Nicks a couple years ago when they won the SB... Eli was throwing to guys within 5 or 10 yards of the LOS, and they were making big plays after the catch.

**Bawlamer** · 11-11-2013, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Ravens2006

The Ravens WR corps, as a whole, is still very flawed. Torrey Smith puts up big numbers, but doesn't run consistent routes. The missed TD on the long ball in the endzone was a perfect example... he misjudged the flight of the ball and put a little (unnecessary) hitch in his route at the last second... all it did was take the ball out of his reach. Jones tries to cradle everything and doesn't use his hands... that's why so many throws his way get knocked away easily. DBs have more time to close and punch it out. Brown is showing good hands and has some upside, but is still learning. Dickson can't catch, and Clark can barely run. The rest, cannon fodder that occasionally makes a play if the defense ignores them.

I didn't see in your post that the ball to Jones was seriously under thrown. Dickson caught yesterday and Clarke caught a TD. What were you watching?

**Ravens2006** · 11-11-2013, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Bawlamer

I didn't see in your post that the ball to Jones was seriously under thrown. Dickson caught yesterday and Clarke caught a TD. What were you watching?

Yes, the ball to Jones was under-thrown. Does Ed Dickson catching a few passes make him a quality receiver? He also came dangerously close to bobbling away the key catch in OT. He didn't, so good for him! But if Coleman decides that little bit of movement was enough to nix it, he's getting crucified here again today.

Not saying Joe is the world's most accurate QB or the league's best QB... just saying that the receiving corps as a whole is flawed.