Ozzie got burned...

**ballhawk** · 11-07-2013, 01:14 PM

In the last 3 years the Ravens have put up BIG money for Ngata, Webb, and Rice. None of those guys have lived up to their contracts and cutting any of them would put a serious burden on the salary cap.

I'm hesitant to include Flacco on this list because he just signed and hasn't had much help this year. But he will be getting the lions share of the cap soon and definitely needs to play better.

So...are these bad deals going to cripple us for the next few years or what? Thoughts?

**Terpsfan82** · 11-07-2013, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by ballhawk

In the last 3 years the Ravens have put up BIG money for Ngata, Webb, and Rice. None of those guys have lived up to their contracts and cutting any of them would put a serious burden on the salary cap.

I'm hesitant to include Flacco on this list because he just signed and hasn't had much help this year. But he will be getting the lions share of the cap soon and definitely needs to play better.

So...are these bad deals going to cripple us for the next few years or what? Thoughts?

Rice is coming off an injury, and hasn't got much help. Webb is in the first year back from an ACL. Ngata on the other hand is slipping, but while no longer dominant, is serviceable. That being said, you don't pay someone 16 million to be serviceable.

**RavensRule21215** · 11-07-2013, 01:19 PM

Those deals have impacted signings, and will continue to impact signings. No doubt about it.

**Loco Ravens Fan** · 11-07-2013, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by RavensRule21215

Those deals have impacted signings, and will continue to impact signings. No doubt about it.

Its true that those contracts are going to impact future signings, however, how many teams signed players and did not win a Super Bowl?!?!!? At least the Ravens got something for the money they paid out. Most NFL owners would do the same if a Super Bowl trophy was in reach!

**JAB1985** · 11-07-2013, 01:37 PM

I hate threads like this, no offense, but injuries are unpredictable and all 3 are only in the discussion as "burning" or being busts because of injury. As far as impact, ofcourse they impact the future but so does every contract they sign big or small.

Ngatas healthy this year, but hes also been playing inside more. Thats greatly effected him as far as what he gives to this defense, but if they didnt still need to double team him every play i dont think doom and suggs are having the seasons they are. I still think hes one of the best DL in the league due to that. Serviceable lineman arent guys that need double teamed still.

**BcRaven** · 11-07-2013, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by ballhawk

In the last 3 years the Ravens have put up BIG money for Ngata, Webb, and Rice. None of those guys have lived up to their contracts and cutting any of them would put a serious burden on the salary cap.

I'm hesitant to include Flacco on this list because he just signed and hasn't had much help this year. But he will be getting the lions share of the cap soon and definitely needs to play better.

So...are these bad deals going to cripple us for the next few years or what? Thoughts?

Let's see now, the Ravens made the playoffs the last three years, went to the AFCCG twice (missing the 2011 SB by a missed catch), and have an NFL championship to boot. But yeah, according to you Ozzie got burned. Almost every team would like to get burned like that too. As far as your hesitation on Flacco, I do belive he had something to do with our playoff/Super bowl run last season. But hey, that's just one man's opinion... Bc

**lobachevsky** · 11-07-2013, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by RavensRule21215

Those deals have impacted signings, and will continue to impact signings. No doubt about it.

I don't question the team's desire to lock these guys up long-term; when healthy & motivated & used properly they are the heart & soul of the defense. But the way the contracts are structured puts the Ravens behind the 8-ball--there's literally no way to get any significant relief from them.

I conjecture that the FO believed the cap would rise significantly in succeeding years & now that the NFL projects a flat cap through 2015, they're (to use a technical term) hosed.

(Funny thing though, I found this piece on Bleacher Report which doesn't even put Poe's Crows in the top 5 sufferers [Bolts, Stealers, Lions, Aints, Cowpies]. Go figger.)

If I cast any blame in the FO's direction it's simply for not writing those contracts with a built-in viable exit strategy to fend off suicide by cap. How? I dunno--not my area of expertise--but it's hard to believe the current situation was the best they could manage.

**RavinFan** · 11-07-2013, 01:48 PM

Any chance that Bwill can step in at nose next year and ngata can shift back to DE?
That might help us get the value out of ngata

**B-more Ravor** · 11-07-2013, 01:55 PM

As Lob pretty much said, at the time those players were signed they were pretty much universally considered to be good deals. If those guys weren't paid that much here, they were going to get it elsewhere. They were top of the market players given top of the market deals.

Could you imagine the fan reaction of any of those guys had been allowed to leave for (maybe) just a 3rd Comp pick?!?!?

But, as Lob also said, I think the structures of those deals - huge bonus/option bonus payments - makes them a bit unwieldy, because that kind of money can't be restructured.

In a way, perhaps that's a good thing, so to keep them from pursuing the way the Steelers have continally restructured deals - because they could - but I think the Steelers approach to contracts (less bonus money, higher base salaries) is a better approach, as long as you resist the temptation to restructure too many deals. The Steelers problem hasn't been the kind of contracts they've given out, it's the neverending approach of restructuring them over and over again that has gotten them in a bind.

The structure allows that, which is good, but must be used in moderation.

All that said, do you really want to be able to restructure Ngata or Rice? Short of a straight paycut, restructuring is only going to extend the pain. Done properly, it could be planned around, so as to lessen the present cost and cause as little pain in the future as possible, but it still means creating present Cap space at the expense of future Cap space.

**Gabrosin** · 11-07-2013, 01:56 PM

I'm willing to give Webb another year's worth of time for his injury recovery. Ngata is the big decision we have to make. If he's truly become a liability, it might be better to cut him and take the $15m hit next year to have him not be here than to take the $16m hit of him being here and then still have another $16m in 2015, or $7.5m in dead money for releasing him then.

But let's be honest, we're not re-signing Arthur Jones, so do we really want to move forward with Brendan Williams, one year of Chris Canty, and basically no one else?

**pslholder96** · 11-07-2013, 02:36 PM

Every GM has bad contract signings. Comes with the territory. But all those contract signings happened during their great 5 year run culminating in a championship last season.
Furthermore how many times have we seen top players resigned to max contracts only to not live up to it a few years later. It happens. Part of the reason these players get the contracts they do is because of what they did on the field.

**Stealthbirds80** · 11-07-2013, 02:37 PM

Injuries are unpredictable. All of the players at the time were way worth it and we got a Superbowl out of it (aside from Webb).

Also, Webb had an injury it takes at least two seasons to get comfortable with, especially for a CB. Ngata is at a position that is prone to breakdown and Rice gave us a lot already, just not this year. He's in the October of his career in some circles and is the perfect example of what you want in a Raven player.

I don't agree he got burned as the NFL and contracts are a gamble on both sides because it's paying for future success.