A little look at the deep ball to Jacoby Jones that could have been (@Steelers)

[wickedsolo]

Better throw and the PI doesn't come into the picture.

I'm a little dumbfounded that the OP is bringing in PI into an argument about whether it was a good throw or not.

Just because Gay would have bailed us out with a potential PI has no bearing on the quality of the throw.




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I think their premise is that yes the ball was underthrown, but Jacoby had a shot at it and even though it was underthrown Gay should have been flagged for PI.

To me, that call could have gone either way. I don't recall if Gay was tracking the pass or running straight for Jacoby. What I will say is that in that circumstance ALL defensive backs are taught to go for the PI to cause an incomplete pass. Additionally, I've seen PI consistently called for a lot less. So, the reality is that could have definitely been flagged for PI and odds are Gay's intentions were to do just that to stop a TD.


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[Raveninwoodlawn]

I think their premise is that yes the ball was underthrown, but Jacoby had a shot at it and even though it was underthrown Gay should have been flagged for PI.

To me, that call could have gone either way. I don't recall if Gay was tracking the pass or running straight for Jacoby. What I will say is that in that circumstance ALL defensive backs are taught to go for the PI to cause an incomplete pass. Additionally, I've seen PI consistently called for a lot less. So, the reality is that could have definitely been flagged for PI and odds are Gay's intentions were to do just that to stop a TD.


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Yeah, he had shot at it, it was under thrown, as opposed to completely being out of play. As long as it's not 10-15 yards under thrown, the receiver can always stop as Jacoby was doing, or come back to the ball. As such, it wasn't horrible, but it was a big missed opportunity because if it's a good throw, Jacoby walks in easily with yards of separation between he and Gay.

Was this thread intended to complain about not getting a PI, or the quality of the throw...they are 2 completely separate things in that play.




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[HoustonRaven]

I hope you don't really believe that it wasn't PI. You're just doing your 'disagree with the popular opinion' bit, right?

I don't care if he did look back at the ball at some point. He has his eyes on Jacoby with one arm on his helmet and the other across both of Jacoby's arms before the ball arrives. That is interference.

No, it's not.

And I quoted the appropriate rule earlier in the thread. That picture is does not take into account the full context of the play.

[Haloti92]

People simply need to watch the replay video, and in live speed. They are trying to gauge what happened through snapshots which totally distort reality. For example, the ball arrives approximately 0.1 seconds after that snapshot of Gay hitting Jones' arms was taken. No more than .1 seconds. Watching live, it is almost simultaneous.

Now obviously Gay arrived early (the snapshot), but it was extremely close timing. And obviously I have seen such plays flagged, but not every time. It simply was not a blatant penalty because the timing was so close, even if it technically could have, should have, been called and sometimes is.

And as for trying to blame Jones, I just have to laugh. I know why people are doing it, the reason is beyond transparent around here. But it is ridiculous nonetheless. Jones doesn't even see Gay. Jones is tracking the ball to actually catch the thing while running full speed. He knows he has left Gay in the dust, that is what he knows. After that point he is totally focused on tracking/catching the ball.

The whole time the ball is coming in, he is watching the ball. And Gay streaks in from Jones' right at the last millisecond. Jones had no reason to treat this as a contested, jump ball (and Jones does still jump a bit anyway at the last millisecond), and frankly, from the replay, he appears to be running way too fast to jump stop (and jump back towards the ball and LOS). Jones obviously knew he was slowing down at the end due to a bit of an underthrow, but the idea he should have known Gay's location down to an accuracy of one foot without getting the chance to glance and check is nonsense.

I advise people to watch the video live, if they can find it.

It was a close play, almost a TD. A close throw, a bit underthrown. A close call, a very unobvious PI.

[alien bird]

People simply need to watch the replay video, and in live speed. They are trying to gauge what happened through snapshots which totally distort reality. For example, the ball arrives approximately 0.1 seconds after that snapshot of Gay hitting Jones' arms was taken. No more than .1 seconds. Watching live, it is almost simultaneous.

Now obviously Gay arrived early (the snapshot), but it was extremely close timing.

Exactly. If it was clearly PI, it would have been called. Missed calls by officials happen in real time and are usually bang-bang. Instant replay in super slo-mo makes a ton of referees' calls look worse than they actually are.

[MRGRIM]

I would be deeply unhappy if we had PI called on us on a similar play.

[Brtnder81]

Good post. Also the fact that Jacoby, instead of getting the ball at it's highest point, decided to try to cradle the ball as if he was catching a punt.

This has always been a knock on Jacoby that he doesnt play like he is 6'2''

[JMUpurkfool]

People simply need to watch the replay video, and in live speed. They are trying to gauge what happened through snapshots which totally distort reality. For example, the ball arrives approximately 0.1 seconds after that snapshot of Gay hitting Jones' arms was taken. No more than .1 seconds. Watching live, it is almost simultaneous.

Now obviously Gay arrived early (the snapshot), but it was extremely close timing. And obviously I have seen such plays flagged, but not every time. It simply was not a blatant penalty because the timing was so close, even if it technically could have, should have, been called and sometimes is.

And as for trying to blame Jones, I just have to laugh. I know why people are doing it, the reason is beyond transparent around here. But it is ridiculous nonetheless. Jones doesn't even see Gay. Jones is tracking the ball to actually catch the thing while running full speed. He knows he has left Gay in the dust, that is what he knows. After that point he is totally focused on tracking/catching the ball.

The whole time the ball is coming in, he is watching the ball. And Gay streaks in from Jones' right at the last millisecond. Jones had no reason to treat this as a contested, jump ball (and Jones does still jump a bit anyway at the last millisecond), and frankly, from the replay, he appears to be running way too fast to jump stop (and jump back towards the ball and LOS). Jones obviously knew he was slowing down at the end due to a bit of an underthrow, but the idea he should have known Gay's location down to an accuracy of one foot without getting the chance to glance and check is nonsense.

I advise people to watch the video live, if they can find it.

It was a close play, almost a TD. A close throw, a bit underthrown. A close call, a very unobvious PI.

Just because you point out what Jacoby did wrong doesn't mean you are absolving Flacco for blame on the play.

Flacco's pass was not where it should have been. He didn't do his job on the play.

I coach college WR's. Jacoby would have gotten a minus from me on this play because all of my WR's are taught to high point an under thrown ball. He knew the ball was under thrown. He jumped to catch the ball with his chest. It makes no sense. Put your hands up in the air. You are taller, with longer arms, and can jump higher than the CB. You can fix Joe's error on the play. It's your job to fix it. But he didn't.

They both failed. Sure if Joe actually threw a good pass it wouldn't have mattered but as a WR I know every pass won't be perfect and I would be pissed at myself if I saw that on film.

[Haloti92]

Just because you point out what Jacoby did wrong doesn't mean you are absolving Flacco for blame on the play.

Flacco's pass was not where it should have been. He didn't do his job on the play.

I coach college WR's. Jacoby would have gotten a minus from me on this play because all of my WR's are taught to high point an under thrown ball. He knew the ball was under thrown. He jumped to catch the ball with his chest. It makes no sense. Put your hands up in the air. You are taller, with longer arms, and can jump higher than the CB. You can fix Joe's error on the play. It's your job to fix it. But he didn't.

They both failed. Sure if Joe actually threw a good pass it wouldn't have mattered but as a WR I know every pass won't be perfect and I would be pissed at myself if I saw that on film.

As I said, if you watch the replay, there is no way Jacoby could have "high pointed" that ball without absolutely slamming on the brakes and/or jump-stopping. Watch it again.

If there is anything at all to criticize is that he did not slow down fast enough to "high-point" the ball. But that brings up to issues: 1) he may not have had time to do that when you consider how late he actually saw the ball and how fast he was running, and 2) slamming on the brakes and high-pointing the ball absolutely guarantees Gay will catch up to him, and also massively reduces any chance of a TD (vs. catch and tackle). Of course there is another "pro" to slamming on the brakes, and that is a more likely chance Gay just runs him over making a PI call impossible to avoid for the ref.

Again, "they both failed" is a cop out, imo, it implies a non-existent equivalence.

[Firststater]

These stills are not very convincing evidence, IMO. In real time it appears as though Jacoby has his man beat by some five yards. It was a sure TD. Jacoby clearly has to slow down because the ball was under thrown. Once he slowed the defender was then able to catch up make contact with Jacoby and nullifies the play. It isn't clear where the ball is in the still when contact is made.

ESPN: "Jacoby Jones had turned Steelers cornerback William Gay around on a deep post route and used his long strides to create a cushion. Fellow wide receiver Torrey Smith was so sure it would be a touchdown, he raised his arms in celebration as he finished off his route.
But Flacco's pass was slightly underthrown, allowing Gay to smack it away, another missed opportunity crashing down to earth for the Ravens and their strong-armed quarterback.

"I didn't want to launch one out there and overthrow a guy who was wide open," Flacco said. "In hindsight, I could have thrown it out there a couple extra yards."

This year Flacco rates second among the worst QBs throwing the deep pass: "In the playoffs, he completed 15 of his 31 deep attempts for 522 yards and five touchdowns. This season, Flacco has attempted deep throws on 13.8 percent of his dropbacks, which equates to one or two fewer per game. The results have been nowhere near as good, as he is 9-for-37 on deep attempts for 383 yards with no touchdowns, two interceptions and passer rating of 47.7.
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/201...s-torrey-smith

[BSHU]

After watching the replay again, I think Jacoby could have come back to the ball but it was definitely a clear underthrow. Gay has his hips turned the wrong way and it's clear that Jacoby is about to be wide open at the time Joe throws it.