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  1. #91
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?



    Quote Originally Posted by ERey View Post
    DOMA is worse than a fine/tax is some people's minds because they view it as discrimination. So imagine if the Ravens promoted DOMA and "family values". I could argue it's a law so no need to get upset.
    I think we're miscommunicating. This above seems to argue against the following position:
    "It's a law, therefore it is a public service to spread awareness."

    My position is:
    "Remaining ignorant of the provisions of this particular law may result in your receiving a fine. It's a public service to inform people so they can take action to avoid a fine should they wish to do so."

    Quote Originally Posted by ERey View Post
    Besides, if Obamacare is dependent upon NFL teams promoting it than that's just another bullet point for people that don't like it. The "public service" isn't needed.
    Not all services have to be needed. If I went around my neighborhood picking up trash I would consider that a public service, but I'd also contend that it's not absolutely necessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by ERey View Post
    If it is needed, then how about a public service promoting roe vs wade. The Ravens could even provide the addesses of abortion clinics. Hey, it's a law and public service that people need. I'm sure there are more than one couple in the stands contemplating an abortion.
    This is similar in the sense that it's controversial. It is dissimilar in that it doesn't attempt to punish someone for inaction. ACA has a provision which fines someone for inaction. When a law like that is passed, I believe the government has an obligation to inform people so they have an opportunity to avoid punishment.

    Quote Originally Posted by ERey View Post
    Bottom line, IMO The Ravens should have stayed out of this promoting unpopular laws business.
    I can definitely sympathize. I just think the unique twist of the fine justifies an exception to this general approach.




  2. #92
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle Cactus View Post
    I can definitely sympathize. I just think the unique twist of the fine justifies an exception to this general approach.
    Don't you mean tax?
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  3. #93
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Don't you mean tax?
    haha, nope! I'd say fine is definitely the more appropriate term ... not that I was choosing my words that thoughtfully.




  4. #94
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    They lost seats in a very gerrymandered House and lost seats in the Senate and lost the Presidential election. The 2012 election was not solely about the ACA of course. But to say that it was a minor issue in that election is false. The Republicans just shut down the government and threatened a default on US debt over their wish to defund Obamacare.
    Gerrymandering? If MD fairly mapped its districts we would have 3 instead of 1 Republican in the House.




  5. #95
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    The GOP just shut the government down and threatened a default on US debt if the ACA was not defunded.
    Nothing personal, but this is a complete misunderstanding of our nation's financial position.

    If the debt limit were not raised or a CR/budget passed the tax revenues coming in FAR AND EXCEED the debt payments that need to be made. Sure, other things would have to be shut down but debt, SS, Medicare, Medicaid and even military pay could continue to be paid from existing revenues. This is the administration's job (see president and his appointments), to manage the finances of of the government in these kind of situations.




  6. #96
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    People can get bronze-level plans at very affordable rates. They can also get subsidies to help them pay for those plans or higher level plans if they have financial need. That is a tidbit that Fox News never mentions.
    It has been mentioned on Fox News ad nauseum. You have to actually watch it to make these kind of claims and you must not.

    Well, except the "affordable" part. This is an opinion. These affordable plans have massive deductibles and are high cost. That others are picking up much of the tab doesn't reduce the cost, it just transfers it.

    People are losing plans in droves they were promised they could keep. We are forced to buy a product we do not want, I would prefer an HSA with a high deductible and I do not need birth control or mental health coverage, thanks.

    Forcing people to do something and limiting their options in what they can do in that regard is not liberty or freedom, it is dictatorial.




  7. #97
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by lobachevsky View Post
    Keep in mind that it's not the "gubmint" canceling plans or restricting provider networks, it's the insurance companies. Which they did on a regular basis before the ACA & would have done without it. I wonder how many of them are just using the ACA as a convenient scapegoat for actions they would have taken anyway.
    Actually it IS the government canceling this insurance because the canceled plans do not meet the ACA requirements. We are forced to buy insurance we do not want as opposed to keep the plans we do want. Obama knew this and lied about it.




  8. #98
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by ERey View Post
    DOMA is worse than a fine/tax in some people's minds because they view it as discrimination.
    How is it discriminatory?




  9. #99
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    How is it discriminatory?
    Failing to provide benefits to same sex partners that are otherwise available to heterosexual couples is the height of discrimination.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  10. #100
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Failing to provide benefits to same sex partners that are otherwise available to heterosexual couples is the height of discrimination.
    I wouldn't say it is "the height" of discrimination. Of course, I don't see it as discrimination. The whole idea of these kind of benefits was to solidify the family for the purposes of raising children. It was to make it easier to form and keep nuclear families.

    Beyond that, these benefits could be provided sans marriage.




  11. #101
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    I wouldn't say it is "the height" of discrimination. Of course, I don't see it as discrimination. The whole idea of these kind of benefits was to solidify the family for the purposes of raising children. It was to make it easier to form and keep nuclear families.

    Beyond that, these benefits could be provided sans marriage.
    Gay couples raise and have nuclear families too.

    But I think we're drifting off topic.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  12. #102
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    FWIW, I had two people remove themselves from our fan group here in Houston yesterday.

    Both were Ravens fans from Baltimore who moved here for work and will no longer follow the team because of the teams decision over Obamacare.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  13. #103
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    FWIW, I had two people remove themselves from our fan group here in Houston yesterday.

    Both were Ravens fans from Baltimore who moved here for work and will no longer follow the team because of the teams decision over Obamacare.
    I just think that is silly and overly dramatic.


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  14. #104
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I just think that is silly and overly dramatic.
    Given how unpopular the law is, I think it was inevitable.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  15. #105
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I just think that is silly and overly dramatic.


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    Which is all the more reason the Ravens should have stayed out of it. Politics and people's healthcare is no joking matter for millions of people. It's a sensative topic. I learned the hard way not to bring up during family get togethers or parties as nice events can easily get ruined. It's better for the Ravens to just stay out of it than risk offending many people.




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