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  1. #61

    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?



    To quote the article.
    we don’t entertain doing businesses with bail bond companies and gentlemen’s clubs despite the interest to do so on their end, because we believe doing so is a potential disservice to our current customers.
    So to telling poor folk in MD that they can get free health insurance for their kids is morally inferior to the lottery (which he seems to find acceptable) and morally equal to advertising for strip clubs and bail bondsmen. Does this mean that if I cancel my health insurance through work, stop taking my kids to the doctor, and blow all that premium money on lapdances on the block I'm still an OK guy?




  2. #62

    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by dweezil22 View Post
    To quote the article.

    So to telling poor folk in MD that they can get free health insurance for their kids is morally inferior to the lottery (which he seems to find acceptable) and morally equal to advertising for strip clubs and bail bondsmen. Does this mean that if I cancel my health insurance through work, stop taking my kids to the doctor, and blow all that premium money on lapdances on the block I'm still an OK guy?
    People already get free health care; it's called medicaid.
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  3. #63
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Again, this isn't about the merits of the ACA.
    I agree completely, & if you review my first post in this thread you will see that most of it has nothing to do with the merits of the program.

    The question is whether it's proper for an entity like a sports franchise to be involved in a campaign to promote public awareness of the law and encourage people to get the facts about what it means for them.

    Does anyone have any evidence that whatever the Ravens do is going to go beyond that? I very much doubt that the White House asked for more. And I even more doubt that Bisciotti (who AFAIK is no Obama-hugger) would have signed onto anything more.

    This thread, with every post arguing the pros and cons, is exactly why politics don't belong anywhere near professional sports.
    Which is why it's over here in this thread. As opposed to Tony's article, which is frontpaged for everyone to see.

    With each post, Tony's point is unmistakably proven.
    Sorry, it isn't, and your saying so won't make it.

    Let me give you an example of why a public awareness program is necessary.

    Sean Hannity recently (looks like it was on October 11) highlighted the "Obamacare horror stories" of three couples. Writing for Salon, Eric Stern decided their stories were worth looking into, because
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stern
    ...none of it smelled right to me. Nothing these folks were saying jibed with the basic facts of the Affordable Care Act as I understand them. I understand them fairly well; I have worked as a senior adviser to a governor and helped him deal with the new federal rules.
    Stern contacted the three couples & discovered that things were not quite as they seemed. First, Paul Cox:
    He and his wife Michelle had lamented to Hannity that because of Obamacare, they can’t grow their construction business and they have kept their employees below a certain number of hours, so that they are part-timers.

    Obamacare has no effect on businesses with 49 employees or less.
    But in our brief conversation on the phone, Paul revealed that he has only four employees....

    There is only one Obamacare requirement that applies to a company of this size: workers must be notified of the existence of the “healthcare.gov” website, the insurance exchange. That’s all.
    As for the others, Stern made a few conservative assumptions & did a bit of shopping using an on-line calculator put up by the Kaiser Family Foundation & found plans that might save either of them significant amounts of money.

    I don’t doubt that these six individuals believe that Obamacare is a disaster; but none of them had even visited the insurance exchange. And some of them appear to have taken actions (Paul Cox, for example) based on a general pessimistic belief about Obamacare.
    The question isn't whether the law is a good one or bad one or something in between. It's whether people understand what it actually means for them, what their options are. And that's where a public awareness program can help, especially by letting folks know what webiste to visit or what phone number to call for information.

    And that's especially important for a demographic like sports fans that probably tends to be more hostile than the general population to "gubmint" & more likely to form their impressions from news sources with a political axe to grind who highlight poorly researched or intentionally misleading "horror stories" that promote ignorance.




  4. #64
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Great post loba. I totally agree. All the Ravens are doing in increasing awareness for a law that has already been passed. They are not taking sides in an ongoing debate on whether a bill should be passed or not. The Republicans have spread a lot of politically motivated lies about the ACA over the past 3-4 years, and as a result, there is a lot of misinformation circulating in the public domain regarding the law. If the Ravens can spread awareness of the law, they will be performing a public service.




  5. #65
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Again, this is significantly far from the first time a sports teams has done something like this. This is nothing new and it, up to this point, has done little, if not nothing at all, to cause an even marginal loss in fanbase or revenue.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  6. #66
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    Again, this is significantly far from the first time a sports teams has done something like this. This is nothing new and it, up to this point, has done little, if not nothing at all, to cause an even marginal loss in fanbase or revenue.
    You've said this a couple times now.

    Care to list them?
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  7. #67
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    Great post loba. I totally agree. All the Ravens are doing in increasing awareness for a law that has already been passed. They are not taking sides in an ongoing debate on whether a bill should be passed or not. The Republicans have spread a lot of politically motivated lies about the ACA over the past 3-4 years, and as a result, there is a lot of misinformation circulating in the public domain regarding the law. If the Ravens can spread awareness of the law, they will be performing a public service.
    I doubt seriously that this "increased awareness" will include that people are are being dropped left and right from their private plans or that women's health choices are being seriously limited.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_16...-low-coverage/

    If you think this ad campaign will be strictly informative in nature, I have a tunnel under the harbor I'd like to sell you.

    Now, I will agree that the GOP has been telling a ton of lies. But so have the Democrats and the President, the largest being "If you like your plan, you can keep it".
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  8. #68
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    After thinking about this a day or so, I think the Ravens made a mistake. At first I looked at it like the Ravens were just providing a public service in telling people what they have to do to comply with the law. But then I asked myself, what if the Ravens decided to take money to support DOMA when it was law? How would that go over? Obamacare is a new law that has a lot of people upset. People who go to the games don't want to be reminded of the law. Just my opinion, but I think the Ravens could have spent that time to pick up another charity.




  9. #69
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by ERey View Post
    After thinking about this a day or so, I think the Ravens made a mistake. At first I looked at it like the Ravens were just providing a public service in telling people what they have to do to comply with the law. But then I asked myself, what if the Ravens decided to take money to support DOMA when it was law? How would that go over? Obamacare is a new law that has a lot of people upset. People who go to the games don't want to be reminded of the law. Just my opinion, but I think the Ravens could have spent that time to pick up another charity.
    Nail meet head
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  10. #70
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Bisciotti is a smart businessman. He didn't just wake up today and realize that the Republicans and their followers oppose the ACA. The GOP just shut the government down and threatened a default on US debt if the ACA was not defunded. They failed yet again of course, but Bisciotti is well aware of how they feel. $130,000 is nothing to a billionaire like Bisciotti, so he did not make this decision for the money. That amount of money may not even cover the Ravens expenses. I think he is doing this because he thinks it is the right thing to do.

    People who do not have health insurance, and have pre-existing conditions are likely going to sign up for Obamacare (ACA). This law will be a God send for them. However, in order for the law to work, uninsured healthy people need to sign up as well. Many of these uninsured healthy people are young people between the ages of 27-32. Thanks to Obamacare (ACA), young people can now be covered under their parents' health insurance plan until the age of 26. This is where pro sports teams and entertainers can be of real help. I bet a lot of NBA, NFL, and MLB teams join in such public awareness efforts before all is said and done.




  11. #71
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    Bisciotti is a smart businessman. He didn't just wake up today and realize that the Republicans and their followers oppose the ACA. The GOP just shut the government down and threatened a default on US debt if the ACA was not defunded. They failed yet again of course, but Bisciotti is well aware of how they feel. $130,000 is nothing to a billionaire like Bisciotti, so he did not make this decision for the money. That amount of money may not even cover the Ravens expenses. I think he is doing this because he thinks it is the right thing to do.

    People who do not have health insurance, and have pre-existing conditions are likely going to sign up for Obamacare (ACA). This law will be a God send for them. However, in order for the law to work, uninsured healthy people need to sign up as well. Many of these uninsured healthy people are young people between the ages of 27-32. Thanks to Obamacare (ACA), young people can now be covered under their parents' health insurance plan until the age of 26. This is where pro sports teams and entertainers can be of real help. I bet a lot of NBA, NFL, and MLB teams join in such public awareness efforts before all is said and done.
    The highly partisan BS aside, just how are people who have pre-existing conditions now and can't afford the high priced plans, going to afford even higher priced plans?

    There is nothing "affordable" about this.
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  12. #72
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by ERey View Post
    After thinking about this a day or so, I think the Ravens made a mistake. At first I looked at it like the Ravens were just providing a public service in telling people what they have to do to comply with the law. But then I asked myself, what if the Ravens decided to take money to support DOMA when it was law? How would that go over? Obamacare is a new law that has a lot of people upset. People who go to the games don't want to be reminded of the law. Just my opinion, but I think the Ravens could have spent that time to pick up another charity.
    DOMA doesn't require you to sign up for something or get fined. ACA is definitely controversial, and I agree that a certain number of people aren't going to be thrilled to see its presence at the stadium. But there is a necessity to inform people about its existence and the obligations it places on them.

    If we agree that this is necessary, then clearly the Ravens are providing a public service by spreading the word. The remaining question is whether it makes business sense. I personally don't think it will effect the Ravens business prospects in even a miniscule way.




  13. #73
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    The highly partisan BS aside, just how are people who have pre-existing conditions now and can't afford the high priced plans, going to afford even higher priced plans?

    There is nothing "affordable" about this.
    People can get bronze-level plans at very affordable rates. They can also get subsidies to help them pay for those plans or higher level plans if they have financial need. That is a tidbit that Fox News never mentions. They quote insurance rates, but never mention the subsides that are available for people to help them pay for more generous plans if they need them and can't afford them. This is why getting uninsured healthy people to sign up is so important. Getting more uninsured healthy people to sign up will allow for the insurance risk to be spread, which will bring down premium costs for everyone, but especially for those people with pre-existing conditions who really need this coverage.

    A couple of other good things that the ACA does is require that insurance companies spend 80% of premium revenue on medical costs. If medical costs are less than 80% of total premium revenue, the difference must be returned to insured members. Also, the ACA expands funding for Medicaid. Two-thirds of all money spent on Medicaid is spent on nursing home care for senior citizens. Medicare does not cover nursing home care, so if you are elderly, need nursing home care, and can't afford it, Medicaid steps in and pays for it. Romney wanted to block grant Medicaid, thus cutting it by one third.
    Last edited by Dirt1; 10-25-2013 at 11:46 AM.




  14. #74

    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    If there's some compelling need to use the stadium video boards, TV ads, the Ravens web-site etc to broadcast propaganda about socializing medical care, there should be more of this crap for other "worthy causes". How about the Ravens inform their fans about how safe we are due to the Patriot Act?

    You can't cherry-pick highly controversial political positions to support without pissing off a lot of your fans.
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




  15. #75
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    People can get bronze-level plans at very affordable rates. They can also get subsidies to help them pay for those plans or higher level plans if they have financial need. That is a tidbit that Fox News never mentions. They quote insurance rates, but never mention the subsides that are available for people to help them pay for more generous plans if they need them and can't afford them. This is why getting uninsured healthy people to sin up is so important. Getting more uninsured healthy people to sign up will all for the insurance risk to be spread, which will bring down premium costs for everyone, but especially for those people with pre-existing conditions who really need this coverage.
    Why is it I can never talk to someone with an opposing view on the internet without them bringing up Fox News... ( I don't watch the news, any of it, none zilch, zero)

    First, I would ask you to define an "affordable" bronze plan, would $20,000 a year for a family of 4 be "affordable"?

    And not everyone can get a subsidy. You have to qualify, and even if you do, where does the money for that subsidy come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    A couple of other good things that the ACA does is require that insurance companies spend 80% of premium revenue on medical costs. If medical costs are less than 80% of total premium revenue, the difference must be returned to insured members.
    That's not good at all. How about you go tell your boss the company you work for can only use 20% of what it takes in on operating cost (rent, utilities, salaries, stationary, advertising etc.) I bet that would go over like a turd in the punch bowl.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    Also, the ACA expands funding for Medicaid. Two-thirds of all money spent on Medicaid is spent on nursing home care for senior citizens. Medicare does not cover nursing home care, so if you are elderly, need nursing home care, and can't afford it, Medicaid steps in and pays for it. Romney wanted to block grant Medicaid, thus cutting it by one third.
    Good to know the Government has a magical money tree that funds everything with no consequences.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




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