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  1. #13
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?



    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    However, The Affordable Care Act is NOT a bill, it is the LAW of the land, and it is not going away. It was passed into law three years ago, was upheld by the Supreme Court, and was a major issue in the 2012 Presidential election. This debate is over. People who oppose Obamacare, need to let it go. Like it or not, it is the law, and it is not going to be repealed
    So you also think Dred Scott should still be on the books? After all, it was passed into law, upheld by the Supreme Court and was a major issue in the elections that followed. The debate was, as you put it, over, right?
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  2. #14
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    I can see why this would create controversy among fans. It's a very touchy subject, especially for those who's premiums went up due to Obamacare. But when cooler heads prevail I think this is nothing write home about. The law says people will get fined (uh actually "taxed" if you're an Obama lawyer) if they don't sign up. So you could look at it like that. The Ravens are just doing a public service for Ravens fans who may need to sign up for this before then get fined, or taxed if you are an Obama lawyer.

    Just like DOMA, the law will succeed or fail on it's own. So far it's not off to a good start. But time will tell. If it's really that bad and the majorty of Amercians feel this way, then November 2014 will not be kind to Democrats.




  3. #15
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by ERey View Post
    The law says people will get fined, uh actually "taxed" if you're an Obama lawyer", if they don't sign up. So you could look at it like that. The Ravens are just doing a public service for Ravens fans who may need to sign up for this before then get fined, or taxed if you are an Obama lawyer.
    This is exactly how I look at it. If you don't have health care you need to sign up. So being informed to that extent is a service to you whether or not you agree with the law.

    As to whether it was a good business decisions ... as someone else pointed out $130,000 seems like pocket change for an NFL franchise. I'm not sure the considerations were purely business.

    I also find it funny that some of the comments below the article are claiming that publishing the article will hurt RSR in the same way Tony is claiming advertising for Obamacare will hurt the Ravens. Publishing this article just drove additional traffic to Tony's site during the bye week. Seems like a savvy move to me.




  4. #16
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    So you also think Dred Scott should still be on the books? After all, it was passed into law, upheld by the Supreme Court and was a major issue in the elections that followed. The debate was, as you put it, over, right?
    We are talking about access to health care, not slavery. If the Republicans wanted to repeal the Affordable Care Act, then they should have won the 2012 election. However, that was a bridge too far considering that Romney had enacted the same exact law in Massachusetts when he was Governor. The Ravens are a private business, who are doing what they think is correct. In Maryland, I bet they gain far more fans then they lose.




  5. #17
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle Cactus View Post
    This is exactly how I look at it. If you don't have health care you need to sign up. So being informed to that extent is a service to you whether or not you agree with the law.

    As to whether it was a good business decisions ... as someone else pointed out $130,000 seems like pocket change for an NFL franchise. I'm not sure the considerations were purely business.

    I also find it funny that some of the comments below the article are claiming that publishing the article will hurt RSR in the same way Tony is claiming advertising for Obamacare will hurt the Ravens. Publishing this article just drove additional traffic to Tony's site during the bye week. Seems like a savvy move to me.
    Of course, the other way to look at it is the law fails if enough people don't sign up. It's why the individual mandate is so important. Many people still think the SCOTUS got it wrong. IMO, they did get it wrong. But the law is the law. Like I said, it's very controversial and people are upset about it. Maybe the Ravens should have just stayed out of it.




  6. #18
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by ERey View Post
    Of course, the other way to look at it is the law fails if enough people don't sign up. It's why the individual mandate is so important. Many people still think the SCOTUS got it wrong. IMO, they did get it wrong. But the law is the law. Like I said, it's very controversial and people are upset about it. Maybe the Ravens should have just stayed out of it.
    What "people"? Last I checked, Obama won the last election when the Affordable Care Act was a major issue, and it wasn't even close. The country is evenly divided on this law. The public opinion polls show that 45% of people say they approve of the law, and 50% disapprove. However, what Republicans don't say is that 12% of the 50% that disapprove do so because they don't think the law goes far enough. These people are liberals who wanted a single payer system. So, that means that 57% of the public either approves of the ACA, or they think it should go even further. No law is going to get 100% approval, but it should succeed or fail on its own merits. BTW, Romneycare, which is the same law as Obamacare, is doing quite well in Massachusetts.




  7. #19
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Tony should know that the Baltimore Ravens are almost indescribably far from being the first professional sports team to do something like this.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  8. #20
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Yes, no law will have 100% approval and that's the larger point. The prudent thing is to stay out of political issues when you're trying to run a business.

    The fact that it's Obamacare is immaterial to Tony's overall point. If you're trying to expand the fan base outside the borders of MD, the prudent thing to do is the remain apolitical. No matter the issue.

    Id be just as upset if the issue happened to be the team promoting the changes to MD's concealed carry law, welfare reform or any other hot button issue -- it immediately divides the fan base, which is counterproductive to the overall goal of expansion.

    This thread is the prime example why it's not smart business for the team to make this move.

    If an owner wants to spend their own money on political issues, go for it. Angelos is a champion of a lot of left causes and has donated millions to the same. I have zero issue with him doing it, it's his right and I could care less what he believes.

    But when the TEAM takes a stance and uses TEAM dollars, that's where the fan base divides and limits future growth of the fan base. We are already challenged enough by having so many teams in such close proximity. Supporting a law / policy / stance immediately limits your already challenging task of growth beyond the borders of MD.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  9. #21
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    BTW, Romneycare, which is the same law as Obamacare, is doing quite well in Massachusetts.
    But which would you prefer?




  10. #22
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    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    What "people"? Last I checked, Obama won the last election when the Affordable Care Act was a major issue, and it wasn't even close.
    So Obama won because people supported Obamacare. They didn't vote for Romeny because he would repeal it, and replace with something similar to what he passed in Mass, which is just like Obamacare? Makes sense.

    Half the idiots who voted don't even know whats in it. Using the election as proof people like a law that's not even full in effect is foolish.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    The country is evenly divided on this law. The public opinion polls show that 45% of people say they approve of the law, and 50% disapprove. However, what Republicans don't say is that 12% of the 50% that disapprove do so because they don't think the law goes far enough. These people are liberals who wanted a single payer system. So, that means that 57% of the public either approves of the ACA, or they think it should go even further. No law is going to get 100% approval, but it should succeed or fail on its own merits. BTW, Romneycare, which is the same law as Obamacare, is doing quite well in Massachusetts.
    Based off of what?
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  11. #23

    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    What "people"? Last I checked, Obama won the last election when the Affordable Care Act was a major issue, and it wasn't even close. The country is evenly divided on this law. The public opinion polls show that 45% of people say they approve of the law, and 50% disapprove. However, what Republicans don't say is that 12% of the 50% that disapprove do so because they don't think the law goes far enough. These people are liberals who wanted a single payer system. So, that means that 57% of the public either approves of the ACA, or they think it should go even further. No law is going to get 100% approval, but it should succeed or fail on its own merits. BTW, Romneycare, which is the same law as Obamacare, is doing quite well in Massachusetts.
    You keep saying Obamacare was a main issue in 2012 when nothing could be further from the truth. It was barely an issue precisely because Romneycare didn't give Romney any real room to criticize.

    And of course, the law was passed by hook, crook, bribes, lies and parliamentary tricks (reconciliation), in a totally partisan manner, unlike any other major piece of social entitlement legislation in US History. It also was unpopular when it was passed and is unpopular now. The 2010 historical landslide in the House occurred precisely because of Obamacare and the way it was passed.

    As for the SCOTUS, it didn't uphold Obamacare at all. It rejected the mandatory Medicaid expansion as unconstitutional. And it ruled the administration's argument that the individual mandate was allowed on interstate commerce grounds was unconstitutional. It merely said that if were (had been) treated as a simple tax, the law could be upheld. The problem there is two-fold. One, Obama incessantly insisted it was not tax (famously verbatim to Stephanopoulos in a testy exchange), and the bill would not have even passed had it been sold as a tax. And two, tax legislation must arise in the House, per the Origination clause, and the ACA did not. It was hilariously tacked on, at 2,000 plus pages, as an amendment in the Senate to the House bill: Service Members Home Ownership Tax Act of 2009 (which had passed 416-0). It was just one of the duplicitous moves Reid pulled while ramming through the law.

    Needless to say all the points it was unsuccessfully sold with when it was rammed through are being exposed as lies. Keep your current insurance? Lie. Keep your doctor? Lie. Lower premiums for everyone? Lie. Everyone will have insurance? Lie. Deficit neutral? Lie.

    Businesses are cutting hours, dropping spouses from health care plans, and dropping insurance altogether because of the consequences of the law. They also are not hiring until they can accurately assess what the law will cost them.

    As for how well Romneycare is doing, I suggest more research:

    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...63000563259044

    The simple fact is, the same positives (and obviously there are some) could have been achieved much more efficiently, much less expensively, with much less government control of the industry / personal healthcare decisiosn / religious beliefs, and with much less harm being done to many less people. The utter incompetence displayed with the exchanges is just the icing on the boondoggle cake.




  12. #24

    Re: Ravens Make Costly Blunder?

    I'm not going to argue Obama's signature health care law here, I participate in other forums I frequent that are more appropriate IMO. What I will say it is a polarizing political issue with many people on both sides of the fence. As a entertainment entity I question the need to pick sides in a very divisive political issue when people have strong opinions on it. Ultimately it's Biscotti's team and he's a smart man, it's his call.




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