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  1. #31

    Re: Ravens' Top 3 Team Needs, 2014 Draft and Beyond



    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    That's not the way it went down though. Reed got cut, Doss was already out of favor, JJ (the Day 1 #2) and got hurt and DT got hurt in August. All of these cats were ahead of Marlon on the depth chart. Now did Marlon pull a "not-Dickson" and take complete advantage of his opportunity? Yes sirrrrr...but he didn't actually beat out anyone ahead of him.
    So...how did he not beat out guys when by the first game he was actually starting? Doss was out of favor in large part because of Brown and Reed was made expendable by Brown. By the end of the 2nd preseason game, the coaches were saying they needed to give him opportunities with the starters because he was playing so well in games and practice. That completely sounds like a guy beating out Doss and Reed. Brown started camp below those guys...by the end of the 3rd game, he made those guys expendable. He forced the staff to give him a big opportunity...and he took advantage that the others didn't. That sounds to me like he "beat out" those guys ahead of him. DT has an injury excuse, but for him IMHO, he had a longer opportunity to stake claim to that 3rd spot and he didn't do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    DT came back to an established Marlon Brown and Doss 2.0 ahead of him on the depth chart. He only has 4% of all targets (in his six games played), but his 60% catch rate is not too shabby if it can be maintained over time.

    No one bangs the drum louder than me about what I think we should do about the WR (and TE) position(s) every spring. You'll find no patience on this subject with me. But even if we bring Mega and Cruz in here, we need dudes that can block and call the blocks upfront. There's waaaay too much uncertainty across the OL right now. My "fix the OL" drum is much larger and louder than my "gimme a stud WR/TE in the Draft" drum. So if that translates into yet another frikkin late-round/UDFA WR pick-up for us in '14 and keeping someone like DT around then I can live with it. IMO keeping #5 upright and healthy is the top priority.

    More so, there are seven games left and other than our worthless or likely-expensive UFA's, it's a bit too early IMO to be definitive on anyone's 2014 status. Roll the clock back 7 games and Jimmy Smith is still teetering on the bust fence. Let it play out.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    I am not saying we need a WR more than fixing the OL...but I also don't necessarily think that means we have to draft a lineman in round one or replace a bunch of guys. By far...by far our biggest problem is center, and there isn't any center worth what pick we're probably looking at in the first round...probably a mid round pick. Leach and I have been big proponents of signing a vet to at least give us competent play there and draft a center somewhere in the 2nd-4th round. IMHO, I expect KO and Yanda to actually be healthy next season which would be a massive upgrade, and I have a lot of confidence that given a full offseason of work at one spot, Wagner can handle RT. The key is re-signing Monroe.

    But I still think if a really good WR/TE is there or close to where we pick, it would be smart to take one.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  2. #32
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    Re: Ravens' Top 3 Team Needs, 2014 Draft and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Uh...I don't think I agree with that.

    Thompson was having problems beating out a guy that got cut (Doss...although they resigned him). I mean I get that he got hurt, but he hasn't done anything in this league to make me think he is a quality number 3 or 4 so far...and he had all offseason to stake his name to that spot. It's great to talk about potential, but at some point you gotta see it.

    Marlon Brown showed that you can actually make some plays in year one and in camp.

    I think Beckham next year would have a bigger impact as a rookie than Thompson....just my opinion. Not saying Beckham is great...just that while I am intrigued by his speed, I'm in no way prepared to act like I'm ready to count on Thompson for anything other than some spot duty.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

    I meant that their skill set is similar and if they want that kind of a player then they wouldn't have to use a draft pick on him.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

    -Arnold Schwarzenegger



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  3. #33

    Re: Ravens' Top 3 Team Needs, 2014 Draft and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    So...how did he not beat out guys when by the first game he was actually starting? Doss was out of favor in large part because of Brown and Reed was made expendable by Brown. By the end of the 2nd preseason game, the coaches were saying they needed to give him opportunities with the starters because he was playing so well in games and practice. That completely sounds like a guy beating out Doss and Reed. Brown started camp below those guys...by the end of the 3rd game, he made those guys expendable. He forced the staff to give him a big opportunity...and he took advantage that the others didn't. That sounds to me like he "beat out" those guys ahead of him. DT has an injury excuse, but for him IMHO, he had a longer opportunity to stake claim to that 3rd spot and he didn't do it.
    Marlon was out-wide on the 1st play @ DEN, but was not on the field at all for the next two series IIRC. Call it a slap to JJ or some unseen gimmick to rattle the DEN defense, but only in the technical sense of the word did Marlon start that game. Both JJ and Stoke were on-pace to get far more snaps until JJ went down.

    I also think that Doss and Reed were made expendable by well, Doss and Reed. Doss looked like hell in the PS and in retrospect Reed never really had a chance to make the roster short of transforming into AJ Green. Also, I disagree that DT's longer opportunity was particularly meaningful with him being 4th or 5th in 2012. He was 4th behind Doss IIRC in the TB pre-season game. That was so not b/c of his performance, but b/c two returning starters, and the coaches' darling Doss were ahead of him. Harbs and JC had to load up Doss on snaps and targets before making a final decision on him and that's what they did. In retrospect, I think it's fair to say that with Doss' performance vs. TB, DT could have moved up a notch if he hadn't gone gimp in the same game.

    Generally, I think it's the wrong play to give up on a 2nd year guy with so many games and snaps yet to come play. Especially, when the position at-hand is WR. It's great that both are very cheap for 2014, but Marlon is clearly the better player right now, and I hope it finishes that way since he clearly has a much greater upside. Still, it's too early.
    "On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the Draft

    Settle down. John Harbaugh and Joe Flacco's Baltimore Ravens can beat any team, anywhere.

    Having fun talking football and tech stuff on Twitter @BigPlayReceiver




  4. #34

    Re: Ravens' Top 3 Team Needs, 2014 Draft and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    Marlon was out-wide on the 1st play @ DEN, but was not on the field at all for the next two series IIRC. Call it a slap to JJ or some unseen gimmick to rattle the DEN defense, but only in the technical sense of the word did Marlon start that game. Both JJ and Stoke were on-pace to get far more snaps until JJ went down.

    I also think that Doss and Reed were made expendable by well, Doss and Reed. Doss looked like hell in the PS and in retrospect Reed never really had a chance to make the roster short of transforming into AJ Green. Also, I disagree that DT's longer opportunity was particularly meaningful with him being 4th or 5th in 2012. He was 4th behind Doss IIRC in the TB pre-season game. That was so not b/c of his performance, but b/c two returning starters, and the coaches' darling Doss were ahead of him. Harbs and JC had to load up Doss on snaps and targets before making a final decision on him and that's what they did. In retrospect, I think it's fair to say that with Doss' performance vs. TB, DT could have moved up a notch if he hadn't gone gimp in the same game.

    Generally, I think it's the wrong play to give up on a 2nd year guy with so many games and snaps yet to come play. Especially, when the position at-hand is WR. It's great that both are very cheap for 2014, but Marlon is clearly the better player right now, and I hope it finishes that way since he clearly has a much greater upside. Still, it's too early.
    He passed Doss and Reed. That isn't in dispute...whether you think it's more because they suck, or Brown is really good.

    That says he did in fact beat them out no matter how you want to slice it.

    DT during all of last year and all of the offseason did not.

    I don't see how it's a debate unless you simply refuse to acknowledge it.

    I'm not saying cut DT tomorrow...he will at minimum be in camp next year.

    But he will need to fight for his job...I see this team adding another WR by the end of day 2 and he'll have a hell of a battle on his hands with Mellete IMHO...he is far from a sure thing.

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  5. #35

    Re: Ravens' Top 3 Team Needs, 2014 Draft and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    He passed Doss and Reed. That isn't in dispute...whether you think it's more because they suck, or Brown is really good.

    That says he did in fact beat them out no matter how you want to slice it.

    DT during all of last year and all of the offseason did not.

    I don't see how it's a debate unless you simply refuse to acknowledge it.

    I'm not saying cut DT tomorrow...he will at minimum be in camp next year.

    But he will need to fight for his job...I see this team adding another WR by the end of day 2 and he'll have a hell of a battle on his hands with Mellete IMHO...he is far from a sure thing.

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    Of course not. No one debates facts. However, you've moved the goalposts since your original retort, which was not a fact, but an opinion/observation based upon a set of heavily contributing circumstances that you didn't acknowledge.
    "On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the Draft

    Settle down. John Harbaugh and Joe Flacco's Baltimore Ravens can beat any team, anywhere.

    Having fun talking football and tech stuff on Twitter @BigPlayReceiver




  6. #36

    Re: Ravens' Top 3 Team Needs, 2014 Draft and Beyond

    As we get further and further down the stretch I believe my present read on the WR situation will prove correct. Doss offers some big-play capability as a slot/possession WR, but his hands and route-running are just not trustworthy enough to hand him the "starting" slot job (assuming we continue to play mostly 3-wide sets next year.) I've seen nothing from the rest of the WR corps that indicates we have a second outside-the-numbers threat beyond Torrey Smith--who has been great at times, but far too inconsistent to be a true #1 WR at this point.

    Marlon Brown is our slot receiver of the future if he stays healthy, but they still need another guy on the outside who defenses have to respect in all areas of the field. I'm lobbying hard for Sammy Watkins or Mike Evans in the 1st round if they're on the BPA list. I haven't really scouted WRs in this class all that well yet, but there's not many guys I'm excited about as "perimeter" WRs other than those 2.




  7. #37

    Re: Ravens' Top 3 Team Needs, 2014 Draft and Beyond

    Based upon performance and payroll, I rank the top needs as...

    OT (Either if Monroe is resigned, Oher is gone, Reid is below average, and Wagner unknown*)
    FS (Dig has been a bit more up than down, but I think his price will be too high. No depth here either)
    TE (We do jack isht in the middle of the field and no one on the roster can block)


    * = I'm willing to believe that the FO thinks a whole lot more of Wagner than I do.
    "On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the Draft

    Settle down. John Harbaugh and Joe Flacco's Baltimore Ravens can beat any team, anywhere.

    Having fun talking football and tech stuff on Twitter @BigPlayReceiver




  8. #38

    Re: Ravens' Top 3 Team Needs, 2014 Draft and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    As we get further and further down the stretch I believe my present read on the WR situation will prove correct. Doss offers some big-play capability as a slot/possession WR, but his hands and route-running are just not trustworthy enough to hand him the "starting" slot job (assuming we continue to play mostly 3-wide sets next year.) I've seen nothing from the rest of the WR corps that indicates we have a second outside-the-numbers threat beyond Torrey Smith--who has been great at times, but far too inconsistent to be a true #1 WR at this point.

    Marlon Brown is our slot receiver of the future if he stays healthy, but they still need another guy on the outside who defenses have to respect in all areas of the field. I'm lobbying hard for Sammy Watkins or Mike Evans in the 1st round if they're on the BPA list. I haven't really scouted WRs in this class all that well yet, but there's not many guys I'm excited about as "perimeter" WRs other than those 2.
    I hear you. Among other things, it appears that Marlon will need a complete off-season to get his knee to 100%, so there's serious risk at the position (JJ gone, Doss being Doss, DT doing nothing in particular, etc.). If Watkins or Evans drop to us, or if we trade a 3rd to move up 3-5 spots to get either guy then that would be great, but our O-line tho...

    Anyways...these should help for WR looks.
    http://draftbreakdown.com/players/?position=WR
    "On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the Draft

    Settle down. John Harbaugh and Joe Flacco's Baltimore Ravens can beat any team, anywhere.

    Having fun talking football and tech stuff on Twitter @BigPlayReceiver




  9. #39
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    Re: Ravens' Top 3 Team Needs, 2014 Draft and Beyond

    OT because probably we do not resign both Monroe and Oher. If we do then obviously not a big priority.

    WR because we got obvious holes.

    FS obvious need but it it is either Ha Ha in the first or we wait a few rounds for value.

    TE probably too though I wonder if this could be more of a day 2 selection if we re-sign Pitta. I don't see value here at the top half of the first round of the draft. We'll take a WR before a TE in round 1.

    C day 2 or early in day 3: Swanson or Grasu?

    DT We will keep Ngata 1 or 2 more years, but Jones will be gone and good chance Cody too so even with K-M healthy we could use another body.

    ILB Can't imagine Jameel will get paid so if BPA is there in day 2 then maybe we pull the trigger. Otherwise day 3.

    CB Depth particularly if we do not sign Graham.

    OL besides a possible starting tackle cause we need more quality.

    I see some folks are saying RB but I don't. Rice will be back cause of his dead money plus he gets somewhat of a pass due to the OL play.




  10. #40

    Re: Ravens' Top 3 Team Needs, 2014 Draft and Beyond

    "On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the Draft

    Settle down. John Harbaugh and Joe Flacco's Baltimore Ravens can beat any team, anywhere.

    Having fun talking football and tech stuff on Twitter @BigPlayReceiver




  11. #41
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    Re: Ravens' Top 3 Team Needs, 2014 Draft and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    What a shame. Lots of talent there. He'll probably never make it.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

    -Arnold Schwarzenegger



    Check out Fatherhood Rules - a blog site dedicated to sports, food, music, movies, and politics.
    http://fatherhoodrules.com




  12. #42

    Re: Ravens' Top 3 Team Needs, 2014 Draft and Beyond

    Dane Brugler ‏@dpbrugler 17m
    Bummer that #NotreDame NG Louis Nix is done for the season due to left knee surgery. But he clearly wasn't at 100% this year.
    It will be interesting to see where he's selected.
    "On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the Draft

    Settle down. John Harbaugh and Joe Flacco's Baltimore Ravens can beat any team, anywhere.

    Having fun talking football and tech stuff on Twitter @BigPlayReceiver




  13. #43

    Re: Ravens' Top 3 Team Needs, 2014 Draft and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    Of course not. No one debates facts. However, you've moved the goalposts since your original retort, which was not a fact, but an opinion/observation based upon a set of heavily contributing circumstances that you didn't acknowledge.
    Nobody is moving the goal posts but you.

    If a guy enters camp at 3rd or 4th (or 5th in Reeds case) on the depth chart, and someone 6th or 7th moves up to 3rd, he beat them out. That was my original point and it has remained my point.

    It's not in dispute. Doss and Reed were completely made expendable because Brown beat them out.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  14. #44

    Re: Ravens' Top 3 Team Needs, 2014 Draft and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    He'll never play a snap of NFL football. Such a shame as he is super, super talented. Usually talent will win out over off-field concerns enough to at least get a guy a UDFA shot, but I strongly doubt that happens with Lyerla. That kind of history is over the line for even the Bengals.




  15. #45

    Re: Ravens' Top 3 Team Needs, 2014 Draft and Beyond

    Reese's Senior Bowl ‏@seniorbowl 17m
    TE CJ Fiedorowicz from @TheIowaHawkeyes has accepted an invite from the 2014 Reese's Senior Bowl!
    Along with Eric Ebron (UNC) declaring for the draft today.
    "On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the Draft

    Settle down. John Harbaugh and Joe Flacco's Baltimore Ravens can beat any team, anywhere.

    Having fun talking football and tech stuff on Twitter @BigPlayReceiver




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