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  1. #16
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    Re: Government Shutdown



    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Sorry, but I view this as a good thing.

    I know Dade is effected and I have family that's also effected. But anytime the Govt isn't dicking with us, it's a win for everyone.
    I really hope that this wakes America up a bit.

    The 2 party system continues to fail heavily and it won't matter who is in the Presidency...when you don't have a Congress that is willing to work with each other, nothing gets done.

    At this point, it isn't even about Obamacare or whatever. It is about ego.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

    -Arnold Schwarzenegger



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  2. #17
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I really hope that this wakes America up a bit.

    The 2 party system continues to fail heavily and it won't matter who is in the Presidency...when you don't have a Congress that is willing to work with each other, nothing gets done.

    At this point, it isn't even about Obamacare or whatever. It is about ego.
    This.

    I quit the Dems in 1996 and the GOP in 2006. Been Libertarian for about three years now.

    Countries with multi party systems tend not to have these issues (save Greece).
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  3. #18

    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I really hope that this wakes America up a bit.

    The 2 party system continues to fail heavily and it won't matter who is in the Presidency...when you don't have a Congress that is willing to work with each other, nothing gets done.

    At this point, it isn't even about Obamacare or whatever. It is about ego.
    Its been long since this was a country where the government is for the people. When shit goes bad, people tend to want to point blame elsewhere. when the blame game starts they forget that working together leads to the best results because its shared blame/success. its like a bunch of children.
    -JAB




  4. #19
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    I know a lot of people are affected and it sucks, bad.

    But the representatives are doing what we elected them to do. Obamacare was passed illegally via procedural tricks. No one wanted it then and no one wants it now. The law is a disaster and I hope my representative stands strong to defund it.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  5. #20
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    This.

    I quit the Dems in 1996 and the GOP in 2006. Been Libertarian for about three years now.

    Countries with multi party systems tend not to have these issues (save Greece).
    Yep.

    I've never really aligned myself to one party or the other.

    I'm pretty much libertarian though.

    I think the current government system is far too big, far too costly, and has far too much power.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

    -Arnold Schwarzenegger



    Check out Fatherhood Rules - a blog site dedicated to sports, food, music, movies, and politics.
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  6. #21
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    I know a lot of people are affected and it sucks, bad.

    But the representatives are doing what we elected them to do. Obamacare was passed illegally via procedural tricks. No one wanted it then and no one wants it now. The law is a disaster and I hope my representative stands strong to defund it.
    They're never going to repeal it.

    If we've learned one thing about Obama is that he doesn't know how to work with anyone. He truly is the type of person where it is his way, or no way.

    He's even said that he'd veto anything that passed through Congress and involved negatively impacting the ACA.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

    -Arnold Schwarzenegger



    Check out Fatherhood Rules - a blog site dedicated to sports, food, music, movies, and politics.
    http://fatherhoodrules.com




  7. #22
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    They're never going to repeal it.

    If we've learned one thing about Obama is that he doesn't know how to work with anyone. He truly is the type of person where it is his way, or no way.

    He's even said that he'd veto anything that passed through Congress and involved negatively impacting the ACA.
    So the people we elected to do what their doing shouldn't do it because he won't work with them?
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  8. #23

    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    I know a lot of people are affected and it sucks, bad.

    But the representatives are doing what we elected them to do. Obamacare was passed illegally via procedural tricks. No one wanted it then and no one wants it now. The law is a disaster and I hope my representative stands strong to defund it.
    its one of Obamas biggest points in the election todo health care reform. less than half of the population doesnt want it or he wouldnt have been voted back in the second time. Its that "its not what I want so we should stop it" thats the issue. Until we have a system where we vote by issue instead of by representative its going to be hard to argue with those results. At this point the smaller percentage has a voice that can overcome the majority. Thats where the system isnt working.
    -JAB




  9. #24
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    its one of Obamas biggest points in the election the do health care reform. less than half of the population doesnt want it or he wouldnt have been voted back in the second time.
    Oh JAB. 11 million people who voted in 08 didn't vote this time around. Many people didn't vote for Romney cause they didn't believe in him repealing it.

    Not only that but you can't gauge the country on JUST the Presidency. There were gains made in the amount of house seats and governors in the last election for Republicans..
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  10. #25
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    Until we have a system where we vote by issue instead of by representative its going to be hard to argue with those results. At this point the smaller percentage has a voice that can overcome the majority. Thats where the system isnt working.
    Not sure what you mean here...
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  11. #26
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    its one of Obamas biggest points in the election todo health care reform. less than half of the population doesnt want it or he wouldnt have been voted back in the second time. Its that "its not what I want so we should stop it" thats the issue. Until we have a system where we vote by issue instead of by representative its going to be hard to argue with those results. At this point the smaller percentage has a voice that can overcome the majority. Thats where the system isnt working.
    True Democracy's are sheer chaos and history has bore that out.

    We need to hold our representatives more accountable.

    We have the government we deserve right now. This is what you get when, by and large, the people are apathetic to Government. Switching to a true democracy won't change that.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  12. #27

    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Not sure what you mean here...
    well youre under the impression that "nobody" wants ACA. so its going to be kind of hard to agree.
    -JAB




  13. #28
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Dade View Post
    I say next election we vote everyone out!
    Already there. Last election I voted without voting for any Democrats or Republicans. I plan on doing so for the foreseeable future. As was mentioned on page 1, it's not sufficient to replace people in office. It's about changing the behavior of our elected officials. Until the endless tug-of-war between Democrats and Republicans is interrupted, I have a hard time seeing how things will get better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dade View Post
    I get it Republicans don't like Obamacare. But how many times are they going to waste time trying to repeal it when they know that the Dems control the Senate and won't let it pass. Now your forcing a shutdown, and for what? This won't accomplish your goal. It's just going to hurt a lot of people.
    Exactly.

    I have no affinity for the Democrats. I've never voted for a Democrat for President or a seat in Congress, but even I feel pretty strongly that this shut down is on the Republicans. Sure, maybe the Democrats played dirty pool somewhere along the line, but both sides do that continually. The simple fact is, the Republicans lost the fight over Obamacare, and they're not going to change that.

    Regardless of your opinions on Obamacare or the tactics of the Democrats, I don't see how someone can be in favor of holding the country hostage over a losing battle.




  14. #29

    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    dysfunction is the function of our government.

    Theres so much misinformation on ACA its kind of hard to get a true gauge of how the people feel and that goes both ways. I liked John Stewart making fun of Ted Cruz for quoting green eggs and ham, "a book about a stubborn (guy) that says he hates something before he tries it and after trying it, he decides he likes it." Its all political BS in my opinion. Republicans dont want to support it to lose their base in case it doesnt work, and vice versa. ACA has its benefits and its downfalls, like most things in life, so im still taking a wait and see approach as most of what im hearing people complain about, simpy hasnt been true with my experiences so far. If they worked half as hard on coming together on a compromise as they have to either push it through or stop it all together itd be a lot better than where it is today. you know, how the government used to work. Guy has an idea, people embrace it, elect him, then both sides work together to actually make it functional. then again maybe that was just a dream i had.

    “I think all of us should respect the outcome of elections, which reflects the will of the people.” - John McCain on ACA.
    In terms of information about the ACA... the more people find out about it, the more they dislike it. This is shown in the polls and in the fact that almost every promise and claim, from overall costs, to the effects on the deficit, to how many will be left without coverage, to people losing their current coverage, to people losing their spouse's coverage, to people losing their current doctor, to people having their hours reduced, etc., has been shown to be false. And the critics knew they were false at the time and said so.

    As for McCain's quote. He ignores the fact that the people voted the Republicans into the House in an unprecedented and historical fashion precisely because of the way Democrats rammed an unpopular ACA through by hook and crook, using bribes, procedural tricks, budget gimmicks, and lies. And of course the House is not some rubber stamp of the White House, no matter how much you or Obama wants it to be so.

    And no, 2012 was not a referendum on Obamacare, as much as you wish that to be so as well. It has polled poorly from the beginning, more people do not like it than like it, and this was the case in November 2012.

    Real Clear Politics has 243 polls since its passing. 95 percent of them show people opposition to Obamacare. Only 4 percent show support (1 percent show tie). Two-thirds of the polls that show opposition do so by double digits or more. In the past 6 months, more than 75% of the pools show opposition, with the recent CNN poll showing 57 percent against and 38 percent for (19 percent margin is a blowout).

    The problem with Obamacare is not just that it is terrible law, it is the manner in which it was passed. It is a massive entitlement program that concerns 15% of our economy, and was passed in a hackish partisan manner with no input from the opposition, and against the will of the people. No other piece of legislation this big was passed on such a party line vote.

    And this doesn't even get into the way Democrats are acting now. These continuing resolutions are only required because Democrats haven't been bothered to pass a budget since they have been in power (too politically inconvenient to create a record of their profligate spending). And the ones being proposed by the House are not a repeal of Obamacare they are various forms of delay (to the individual mandate, the exchange funding, etc.). And Obama has already unilaterally and unconstitutionally delayed several aspects of the law for political convenience (employer mandate, the process of proving eligibility, etc.). So asking to delay the whole thing is perfectly reasonable. Perfectly.

    Now again, our low information electorate combined with a sycophantic press make the way Democrats are acting tactically sensible, but it does not make it morally or logically justifiable.
    Last edited by Haloti92; 10-01-2013 at 12:57 PM.




  15. #30
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Feels pretty good being a Libertarian today.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




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