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  1. #25
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    Mattison called a top 10 defense in both of the seasons he was here.




  2. #26
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    Re: The Ravens Sack Pace

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    This is the thing that annoys me about Pees. He's too conservative. That's all well and good when you're not that talented, but this unit clearly are.
    What exactly is the need to send DBs when we're already getting this much pressure? Is one more blitzer going to outweigh the depletion in the secondary? Is there some reason to give Brandon Weedon or Matt Schaub an open outlet when you're already in their faces and have all their receivers covered? Is it really "conservative" when it holds two teams to a combined 15 points in two games???

    I don't have filmstudy's breakdown handy, but my recall is that so far we're not getting any better results from bringing 6 or 7 than when we bring 4-5. If that is correct (and again, I'd have to go back and look) then why bother? Seems to be working well enough as is.

    Honestly, I think all this stuff about being aggressive vs conservative comes down to people's aesthetic preferences more than anything. It looks really cool to see blitzers off the edge, but what is the exact price of looking cool?
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  3. #27
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    Re: The Ravens Sack Pace

    Quote Originally Posted by lobachevsky View Post
    Shudder away. IMHO he'd have done pretty damned well.

    The problem with his Ravens defenses was precisely that he didn't have "all these rushers" at his disposal, which meant he needed to get creative in order to gin up any sort of pressure at all. That usually means sending a DB & hoping the short-handed pass coverage can hold up long enough for the rush to get home--a decidedly high-risk strategy even with a better secondary than he had to work with.

    Mattison is not a stupid coach. Not terribly creative maybe (& frankly who knows how much of that had to do with placating Harbs' abundantly-documented aversion to risk) but not stupid either. From all appearances, the current front 7 doesn't need Toejamosaurus-Rexian scheming: the DC need only "Cry 'Havoc!', and let slip the dogs of war"....& IMO "Pops" coulda(woulda) done that just as well as Pees does now.
    A huge chunk of the fanbase not only doesn't remember how Mattison had to work short handed, they never even paid enough attention at the time to realize it in the first place. He did a damn good job considering he had guys like Foxworth, Nakamura, Frank Walker, Fabian Washington, etc. to work with. He managed to get the most out of guys like Chris Carr and a very raw Cary Williams. I look at the defensive rosters for the seasons he ran the defense and wonder how the hell we ever beat anybody.

    There's just no explaining that to people. They either paid attention or they didn't. The grossly overgeneralized myth that Mattison was soft is ingrained in their heads, and that will never change.
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  4. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post

    A huge chunk of the fanbase not only doesn't remember how Mattison had to work short handed, they never even paid enough attention at the time to realize it in the first place. He did a damn good job considering he had guys like Foxworth, Nakamura, Frank Walker, Fabian Washington, etc. to work with. He managed to get the most out of guys like Chris Carr and a very raw Cary Williams. I look at the defensive rosters for the seasons he ran the defense and wonder how the hell we ever beat anybody.

    There's just no explaining that to people. They either paid attention or they didn't. The grossly overgeneralized myth that Mattison was soft is ingrained in their heads, and that will never change.
    Ok, I'll defend Mattison to a point, but to say that looking at our defensive roster in the two years he was here, and wonder how we beat anybody is hilarious.

    We had Ed Reed almost at his best, Ray Lewis who was still a top tier ILB in those two seasons, Terrell Suggs, Cory Redding, Kelly Gregg, Jarret Johnson, oh and Haloti Ngata.




  5. #29
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    Re: The Ravens Sack Pace

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    A huge chunk of the fanbase not only doesn't remember how Mattison had to work short handed, they never even paid enough attention at the time to realize it in the first place. He did a damn good job considering he had guys like Foxworth, Nakamura, Frank Walker, Fabian Washington, etc. to work with. He managed to get the most out of guys like Chris Carr and a very raw Cary Williams. I look at the defensive rosters for the seasons he ran the defense and wonder how the hell we ever beat anybody.

    There's just no explaining that to people. They either paid attention or they didn't. The grossly overgeneralized myth that Mattison was soft is ingrained in their heads, and that will never change.
    I agree with you to a point.

    It is true that the cornerback position was severely lacking while Pops Mattison was the DC here.

    However, he had a pretty good group in the front-7. What drove me nuts with Mattison was he would constantly sent 3 or 4 rushers at the QB...and that was that. No blitz packages, no stunts...just a 3 or 4 man rush and everyone else dropping into zones.

    The best way to mask a deficient secondary is to get after the QB and force them to make errant throws.
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  6. #30
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    Re: The Ravens Sack Pace

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I agree with you to a point.

    It is true that the cornerback position was severely lacking while Pops Mattison was the DC here.

    However, he had a pretty good group in the front-7. What drove me nuts with Mattison was he would constantly sent 3 or 4 rushers at the QB...and that was that. No blitz packages, no stunts...just a 3 or 4 man rush and everyone else dropping into zones.

    The best way to mask a deficient secondary is to get after the QB and force them to make errant throws.
    And I, in turn, agree with you to a point, in that I agree that "most of the time", the best way to mask deficiencies in the secondary is to bring pressure. Doing so, of course, leaves defenders on an island.

    The secondary, at that time, was not one you'd feel particularly comfortable with on islands.
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  7. #31
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    Re: The Ravens Sack Pace

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Ok, I'll defend Mattison to a point, but to say that looking at our defensive roster in the two years he was here, and wonder how we beat anybody is hilarious.

    We had Ed Reed almost at his best, Ray Lewis who was still a top tier ILB in those two seasons, Terrell Suggs, Cory Redding, Kelly Gregg, Jarret Johnson, oh and Haloti Ngata.
    Reed missed a lot of time during those years (5-6 games or so during 09-10). Ray was in his mid 30s, and did a great job as the field general, but was slowing down even then, but was still the glue that held it all together, no question. Suggs was banged up in 2009, was overweight, and was ineffective rushing the passer (4.5 sacks).

    So yes, we had them, and no doubt, Haloti was incredible in those days. The defense was good, overall. My point is Mattison deserves a lot of credit for that, rather than the endless stream of criticism he gets. With the other DC's you never hear that; but for some reason he gets remembered negatively. I don't get that.

    Mattison was often dealing with makeshift lineups and digging deep into the depth chart. Despite the strong points, there were more often than not, multiple weak links on the field that had to be papered over.
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  8. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post

    Reed missed a lot of time during those years (5-6 games or so during 09-10). Ray was in his mid 30s, and did a great job as the field general, but was slowing down even then, but was still the glue that held it all together, no question. Suggs was banged up in 2009, was overweight, and was ineffective rushing the passer (4.5 sacks).

    So yes, we had them, and no doubt, Haloti was incredible in those days. The defense was good, overall. My point is Mattison deserves a lot of credit for that, rather than the endless stream of criticism he gets. With the other DC's you never hear that; but for some reason he gets remembered negatively. I don't get that.

    Mattison was often dealing with makeshift lineups and digging deep into the depth chart. Despite the strong points, there were more often than not, multiple weak links on the field that had to be papered over.
    And I agree, people forget, that defense was the 3rd ranked defense in 2009, and the 8th ranked defense in 2010 IIRC. Yes. It wasn't a flashy defense that would create mass amounts of pressure like in 06, 08, 11, or through the past 2 weeks like this defense. But it held teams to a very low amount of yardage and points, and helped us win a lot of games. The offense was a ball controlled offensive type unit that didn't score many points, so the defense must have been doing something right.




  9. #33
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    Re: The Ravens Sack Pace

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    A huge chunk of the fanbase not only doesn't remember how Mattison had to work short handed, they never even paid enough attention at the time to realize it in the first place. He did a damn good job considering he had guys like Foxworth, Nakamura, Frank Walker, Fabian Washington, etc. to work with. He managed to get the most out of guys like Chris Carr and a very raw Cary Williams. I look at the defensive rosters for the seasons he ran the defense and wonder how the hell we ever beat anybody.

    There's just no explaining that to people. They either paid attention or they didn't. The grossly overgeneralized myth that Mattison was soft is ingrained in their heads, and that will never change.
    I go back to the Pittburgh playoff and 3rd/19 and Pops gave RBerger all day whn he should have had pressure, but we didn't, he did, we lost, but oddly enough, I'd take him over Pees with this particular D.




  10. #34
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    Re: The Ravens Sack Pace

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    The secondary, at that time, was not one you'd feel particularly comfortable with on islands.
    Depends on what island. If you could have found one way the hell off the shipping lanes & arranged to have some of them left there...




  11. #35
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    Re: The Ravens Sack Pace

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    ...for some reason [Mattison] gets remembered negatively. I don't get that.
    I think you've forgotten a few things that seemed rather pertinent at the time:. His connection with John Harbaugh--
    During his time at Western Michigan University, Mattison coached alongside John Harbaugh, who was a graduate assistant and assistant coach. Harbaugh, then head coach of the Baltimore Ravens, hired Mattison [in 2008] to coach the Ravens linebackers.
    --how little experience he had, at the time of hiring--
    The job was Mattison's first NFL coaching position in 37 years of coaching football.
    --& at the time he became defensive coordinator (in early 2009 after one year as LB coach).

    Mattison became the poster boy for Harbaugh's penchant for putting old friends & family connections on the Ravens coaching staff, seemingly without regard for whether they had the background or ability to do the job. Of all the hires that looked like nepotism, his seemed the most egregious.

    If someone with an NFL track record & no close ties to Clan Harbaugh had organized the defense the way Mattison did, he would have been given a lot more leeway by the fan base before the bitching & moaning began. But when "Pops" installed what looked to many here like a defective defensive philosophy, on the basis of one year's experience in the NFL (& that, it was darkly hinted, was purely a figleaf to allow Harbs to shove Rex out & move Greg in), the fat was in the fire.




  12. #36

    Re: The Ravens Sack Pace

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Mattison called a top 10 defense in both of the seasons he was here.
    And if he called the defense some fans seem to have wanted him to, we would've led the league in big plays allowed.

    The defense looks like it's starting to jell. Manning's arm may be a noodle now, but he still has great vision, a great understanding of his offense, and great timing. He gets the ball out very quickly, which makes him very hard to sack. There aren't many QB's with the ability and the offensive scheme to do what he does.




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