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  1. #1
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    Should Businesses Be Allowed to Discriminate?



    Not in who they hire, but who they provide business to?

    I find this topic to be more interesting and more poignant than the abortion debate, the same sex marriage debate, and legalization of marijuana debates.


    Indiana recently passed a law allowing businesses to deny service to essentially whomever they want, but the main point was that businesses don't have to provide service to homosexuals if they don't want to. I've heard some think this could set a bad precedent by allowing businesses to go back to pre-Civil Rights movement society where some businesses didn't allow "colored" folk into their establishment. While I think that is a bit over the top, it doesn't make for an interesting topic.


    The State of Washington actually sued a small business (a florist) for not providing a service to a same-sex marriage in 2013. The state asserted under their Consumer Protection Act that the florist provided service for heterosexual marriages, so they must do the same for homosexual marriages.

    http://www.usnews.com/news/newsgram/...r-gay-marriage

    This also brings up the Redskins PR-smear campaign trying to force them to change the name of the franchise.

    Should privately-owned businesses be allowed to deny services to people?

    I'm actually kind of torn on this topic because the Libertarian in me says that if a business if a privately-owned organization, then they should be allowed to operate however the fuck they want. If they're business practices are based on discrimination and bigotry, then I'd imagine that they won't be in business for very long. So, wouldn't it just make more sense to allow the death of that business to occur naturally rather than forcing them to provide service to someone they don't want to be involved with? Furthermore, why would a discriminated person(s) want to pay for that business anyway? There are plenty of other non-discriminatory businesses available.

    What are your thoughts?
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  2. #2

    Re: Should Businesses Be Allowed to Discriminate?

    Absolutely.

    It's simple. Do you have the legal right to make a black photographer take pictures of a KKK rally? How about a Jewish baker cooking for a pro-Nazi party?
    "A moron, a rapist, and a Pittsburgh Steeler walk into a bar. He sits down and says, Hi Im Ben may I have a drink please?
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  3. #3
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    Re: Should Businesses Be Allowed to Discriminate?

    I think there's probably needs to be a line where, if a business is one that merely sells pre-made goods or goods that aren't to a specification in which whatever belief/lifestyle/what have you the customer engages in are being incorporated into the product or service, then that business should not be able to turn away a customer. But if the customer's beliefs/lifestyle/what have you are being integrated into the product or service, then the business owner should have right of refusal.

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  4. #4

    Re: Should Businesses Be Allowed to Discriminate?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhThePossibilities View Post
    I think there's probably needs to be a line where, if a business is one that merely sells pre-made goods or goods that aren't to a specification in which whatever belief/lifestyle/what have you the customer engages in are being incorporated into the product or service, then that business should not be able to turn away a customer. But if the customer's beliefs/lifestyle/what have you are being integrated into the product or service, then the business owner should have right of refusal.

    Sent from my SGH-T769 using Tapatalk 2
    Restaurants, super-markets, those kinds of places? Definitely should not be able to turn anyone away.

    Let's try another one. Let's say I'm a wedding singer. Two guys are getting hitched and want me to perform. I refuse. I should not be forced to be in a setting I find uncomfortable.

    NOTE: I agree with OTP. The example was just to clarify what I think we're both saying.
    "A moron, a rapist, and a Pittsburgh Steeler walk into a bar. He sits down and says, Hi Im Ben may I have a drink please?
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  5. #5
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    Re: Should Businesses Be Allowed to Discriminate?

    The Libertarian in me (as noted in OP) definitely agrees with the premise that government (State, Local, Tribal, or Big Gov) shouldn't inject themselves at all into the matters of private business unless it directly impacts something tangible on a national scale (e.g. security).

    However, I do think that allowing businesses to freely discriminate is a slippery slope. Where does it stop? You know damn well there are some businesses out there that would love society to revert back to pre-Civil Rights movement so they can tell folks "we dont serve your kind 'round here!"

    Where does it end?

    On the other hand, I think someone suing a business for not providing them a service when there are other businesses that provide the same service in their vicinity are just trying to make waves for the sake of making waves. It's silly.
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  6. #6
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    Re: Should Businesses Be Allowed to Discriminate?

    I agree in principle that a business, like any other private property, should be allowed to serve whomever they want. Here in TX for example, if a business doesn't want a concealed carrier in they establishment, they must put up a state-approved sign up in their window stating they don't want the business.

    But I do catch myself falling for the classic is / ought fallacy on this one. While I agree in principle of the practice, the damage that the practice can cause is apparent. And we've been regulating businesses since the very first person decided to sell a widget hundreds of years ago so there's never been a time when we've had unfettered, business practices. Not saying its right, just pointing it out for context.

    So like Wicked, I am torn as well. But I do find this law particularly stupid, like many redundant "feel-good" laws. There's already a religious right guarantee. Its called the First Amendment. There's already hate crimes laws, thanks to the numerous laws already on the books. There's already thousands of labor laws on the books, yet Unions keep pushing "new" protections.

    The point of the law was to gin up support from a small sect of people and it's worked. I don't think Pence saw this coming and, frankly, any talk of him becoming President should be stopped as this effectively put an end to any campaign he was considering.
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  7. #7

    Re: Should Businesses Be Allowed to Discriminate?

    Or, you could state the question, should the govt force privately owned businesses into engage in commerce with people it does not want to?




  8. #8
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    Re: Should Businesses Be Allowed to Discriminate?

    Quote Originally Posted by blah3 View Post
    Or, you could state the question, should the govt force privately owned businesses into engage in commerce with people it does not want to?
    No, it shouldn't. In a true free market system, businesses that discriminate or allow bigotry to determine their clientele are not likely going to prosper, thus the market would eventually weed those businesses out.

    However, as HR pointed out, businesses and business has always been regulated to some degree.


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  9. #9

    Re: Should Businesses Be Allowed to Discriminate?

    It should be common sense. Unfortunately, humans as a general rule of thumb are deeply stupid.

    EDIT: A whole lot that pisses me off about the issue that has nothing to do with the thread.
    "A moron, a rapist, and a Pittsburgh Steeler walk into a bar. He sits down and says, Hi Im Ben may I have a drink please?
    ProFootballMock




  10. #10
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    Re: Should Businesses Be Allowed to Discriminate?

    Quote Originally Posted by blah3 View Post
    Or, you could state the question, should the govt force privately owned businesses into engage in commerce with people it does not want to?
    Should it? No.

    Does it and always has to some degree? Yes. And that's not going to change in today's political climate.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  11. #11

    Re: Should Businesses Be Allowed to Discriminate?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Should it? No.

    Does it and always has to some degree? Yes. And that's not going to change in today's political climate.
    There-in lies the rub doesn't it? We seem to inherently know that the govt forcing actions upon citizens is not right. (I would say one of the reason for the foundation of this country). Yet we've as a society gone down the line of accepting such (so much so that it's the norm) because it's the right thing to do politically speaking. Which all works great when the politically right thing to do is aligned with your beliefs. Suddenly, not so much when it ever expands.




  12. #12
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    Re: Should Businesses Be Allowed to Discriminate?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    No, it shouldn't. In a true free market system, businesses that discriminate or allow bigotry to determine their clientele are not likely going to prosper, thus the market would eventually weed those businesses out.

    However, as HR pointed out, businesses and business has always been regulated to some degree.


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    I don't like businesses not being able to refuse service considering the number of unruly shitheads out there. The theory that businesses that discriminate won't thrive though hasn't held up we though. Instead, you see more instances where a class of people are denied access to a certain standard of service (eg racial inequities in the 20th century).


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