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Thread: Marlon Brown

  1. #286

    Re: Marlon Brown



    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    Or whatever. Definitely.


    Someone should write a song...
    "On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the Draft

    Settle down. John Harbaugh and Joe Flacco's Baltimore Ravens can beat any team, anywhere.

    Having fun talking football and tech stuff on Twitter @BigPlayReceiver




  2. #287

    Re: Marlon Brown

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    New England essentially moved back 3 spots to move up 29 spots from their pick in the 4th to the 3rd. That is a tremendous deal IMHO and in no way equal to saying, here is a pick near the end of the 6th.

    In a vaccum, sure that may have done it.

    But when you are dangling a carrot, and that carrot is Dez Bryant, the Cowboys upped the ante and gave New England what they wanted...at that point Belichick was all about hoarding 2nd and 3rd round picks. He doesn't trade just for the hell of it.

    I don't think there is any way New England would have viewed an extra close to 7th round pick as any way as valuable as moving up 29 spots in between the 4th and 3rd rounds.



    If the Cowboys weren't offering what they were offering?...sure that may have worked out. and like I said, give New England a 2 either that year or the following, and that likely gets it done to. But I can't be upset with the team not wanting to go that route having just given up picks for Boldin.

    But nobody would honestly and objectively say they'd rather move back 1 spot, lose the falling carrot that the Cowboys wanted for a 6th round pick...when you can move back just 3 spots where your guy is likely still going to be there and gain 29 spots in between the 4th and 3rd rounds.

    Edit:...Another big part of that trade...New England did not have a 3rd round pick at all so you know they wanted a pick in that round.
    I hear what you are saying but I think you are somewhat overstating the "carrot" or "premium" that Dallas offered. The trade was only marginally in the Pats favor.

    I also stated that a 6th alone from us does not do the trick. A 5th and 6th however is a different story.

    New England - Dallas trade:

    #24 = 740
    #119 = 56

    for

    #27 = 680
    #90 = 140

    So 796 pts. traded for 820 pts., in New England's favor (24 pts. or roughly a premium of a #168 pick in 6th round)

    Hypothetical New England - Baltimore trade:

    #24 = 740

    for

    #25 = 720
    #156 = 29
    #194 = 13.8

    So 740 pts. traded for 762.8 pts., in New England's favor (22.8 pts. or roughly a premium of a #171 pick in the 6th round).

    About as close to the same value as possible, all things considered.

    New England could still then move from #119 to #90. By using any combination of the extra #5 and extra #6 they got from us and anything they could have gotten from trading back from #25 to #27 (or beyond if they felt McCourty would still be there).

    My only point is that we were not precluded from making a similar offer by the nature of our draft picks (after acquiring Boldin). Whether New England would have gone for a similar offer, who knows. You are correct that the Dallas trade was a quicker easier way to accomplish the goal, assuming the goal was to move back a few spots in the 1st and move up into the 3rd from the 4th.




  3. #288

    Re: Marlon Brown

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    I hear what you are saying but I think you overstating the "carrot" or "premium" that Dallas offered. The trade was only marginally in the Pats favor.

    I also stated that a 6th alone does not do the trick. A 5th and 6th however is a different story.

    New England - Dallas trade:

    #24 = 740
    #119 = 56

    for

    #27 = 680
    #90 = 140

    So 796 pts. traded for 820 pts., in New England's favor (24 pts. or roughly a premium of a #168 pick in 6th round)

    Hypothetical New England - Baltimore trade:

    #24 = 740

    for

    #25 = 720
    #156 = 29
    #194 = 13.8

    So 740 pts. traded for 762.8 pts., in New England's favor (22.8 pts. or roughly a premium of a #171 pick in the 6th round).

    About as close to the same value as possible, all things considered.

    New England could still then move from #119 to #90. By using any combination of the extra #5 and extra #6 they got from us and anything they could have gotten from trading back from #25 to #27 (or beyond if they felt McCourty would still be there).
    The chart didn't play any part of this IMHO.

    New England clearly wanted a 3rd round pick...they were hoarding picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds at the time yet didn't have one that year and I would bet a lot on the fact that one of Belichick's goals going into the draft was to get a 3rd round pick while keeping his other high picks. He got his chance early while still getting the guy he wanted.

    There is no guarantee that someone would have taken late 5th and 6th rounders on day 3 and agreed to the movement they got from Dallas. Saying "they could have then packaged pick X and Y for pick z is speculation based on other teams needs, how their boards fell and how closely they wanted to adhere to that chart...the chart is a rough guideline that teams go outside of all the time depending on those other factors.

    They got what they wanted from Dallas without having to hope some other team would allow them to move up 29 spots without giving up much.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  4. #289
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    Re: Marlon Brown

    Not to mention that all of this speculation hinges on the belief that the team DIDN'T make NE and offer. For all we know, they did exactly what you're suggesting and Belicheck simply turned them down. Not to mention how incredibly silly it is to be arguing a hypothetical trade that may or may not have been offered several drafts ago for a player who may or may not follow up on a really impressive stretch of games in one season.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  5. #290

    Re: Marlon Brown

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    Not to mention that all of this speculation hinges on the belief that the team DIDN'T make NE and offer. For all we know, they did exactly what you're suggesting and Belicheck simply turned them down. Not to mention how incredibly silly it is to be arguing a hypothetical trade that may or may not have been offered several drafts ago for a player who may or may not follow up on a really impressive stretch of games in one season.
    I am not "suggesting" anything. The only thing I am arguing against is the assertion that we couldn't have possibly traded up because we lacked 3rd and 4th round picks required to make a fair/comparable offer.

    I also don't think it is all that "silly" to discuss the issue of whether or not the Ravens have tried really hard to draft a stud WR since Flacco has been here. Especially considering about 50% of the threads are about the current state of our WR core (how much does Doss suck, does Marlon Brown have "IT," how hurt is Thompson, can a 37 year-old WR help our team for 16 games, etc., etc.)




  6. #291
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    Re: Marlon Brown

    But since you're not in the draft room, you have no idea what offers we made or didn't make so your central premise, that we can possibly ascertain how much the team has tried to get a tip tier receiver, is totally undebatable.

    All we know is that they have brought guys in, Boldin, Torrey, Jacoby, etc in the hopes that one or all of them would be that guy. Torrey has shown the most in terms of raw talent, Boldin had the most production, and Jacoby has flashed in big games, so they haven't totally failed either.

    The reality of the matter is that we're perennially drafting late, and there just haven't been many chances to grab an AJ Green or Julio type player. We may or may not have tried to move up to get Dez, but it didn't happen. Why that is is pure speculation on every's part.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  7. #292

    Re: Marlon Brown

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    But since you're not in the draft room, you have no idea what offers we made or didn't make so your central premise, that we can possibly ascertain how much the team has tried to get a tip tier receiver, is totally undebatable.
    We know that the amount they have tried is less than the amount required to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    All we know is that they have brought guys in, Boldin, Torrey, Jacoby, etc in the hopes that one or all of them would be that guy. Torrey has shown the most in terms of raw talent, Boldin had the most production, and Jacoby has flashed in big games, so they haven't totally failed either.
    Of course. No one (at least not me) was arguing they "totally failed." We won a SB, afterall. In fact, I wasn't even arguing we have barely tried, though I don't think the team considers it a huge priority.

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    The reality of the matter is that we're perennially drafting late, and there just haven't been many chances to grab an AJ Green or Julio type player. We may or may not have tried to move up to get Dez, but it didn't happen. Why that is is pure speculation on every's part.
    Atlanta finished ahead of us in 2010, and was drafting 1 spot behind us in 2011, but made a big move to get Julio. That said, I recognize we don't seem to be that kind of F.O., nor do I think we necessarily should be that kind of F.O.

    But in the context of this conversation, others probably think that if you pay your QB top 5 money, you should make a bold move to get him a young alpha, #1 WR, even if it means sacrificing elsewhere. Again, I don't necessarily agree (with a Julio-like big costly trade), but teams have done that for their QB. I am more talking about using a #1 wherever it is, on a tall, physical specimen, WR, or even using our #2 more often, until we surround Flacco with a top notch WR corp.

    And, no, I don't think he has been surrounded by rubbish, in fact I am one of the few who has taken a beating defending Boldin's value/talent. I just think that the team still basically drafts like it did when we were looking to lead the league in defense, and "get by" on offense; despite the fact we just anted up for our QB.




  8. #293
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    Re: Marlon Brown

    For those who came in late:
    X is "elite"
    "Is not."
    "Is so!"
    "Is not!"
    ETC

    Also the stages of worry:
    1) Concern
    2) Deeply concerned
    3) Mortally concerned
    4) Panicked
    5) Wetting one's undies
    6) Dirtying one's drawers




  9. #294

    Re: Marlon Brown

    Quote Originally Posted by houstonravensfan View Post
    For those who came in late:
    X is "elite"
    "Is not."
    "Is so!"
    "Is not!"
    ETC

    Also the stages of worry:
    1) Concern
    2) Deeply concerned
    3) Mortally concerned
    4) Panicked
    5) Wetting one's undies
    6) Dirtying one's drawers
    7) Jumping off a roof
    8. Jumping off the Bay Bridge




  10. #295

    Re: Marlon Brown

    Never mind that... I'm enjoying re-living the 2010 and 2011 drafts.
    "On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the Draft

    Settle down. John Harbaugh and Joe Flacco's Baltimore Ravens can beat any team, anywhere.

    Having fun talking football and tech stuff on Twitter @BigPlayReceiver




  11. #296
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Cub Hill, MD
    Posts
    2,691

    Re: Marlon Brown

    OK. I'm sold on this kid.


    WORLD CHAMPIONS 2000 * 2012




  12. #297

    Re: Marlon Brown

    Quote Originally Posted by houstonravensfan View Post
    For those who came in late:
    X is "elite"
    "Is not."
    "Is so!"
    "Is not!"
    ETC

    Also the stages of worry:
    1) Concern
    2) Deeply concerned
    3) Mortally concerned
    4) Panicked
    5) Wetting one's undies
    6) Dirtying one's drawers
    *like button*




  13. #298

    Re: Marlon Brown

    Quote Originally Posted by camdenyard View Post
    OK. I'm sold on this kid.
    I second that




  14. #299

    Re: Marlon Brown

    The kid's all right.

    Won't cut him.
    Can't stash him.
    IR would set him back and makes no sense.
    No ridiculous expectations needed, but he's earned a regular season look.

    Which early opponent has small/short nickel backs?
    Even if slightly hesitant to put him out there too early, that's the match-up I would try to engineer with Marlon...plus you'd have great slight lines for Joe to connect.
    Last edited by BigPlayReceiver; 08-30-2013 at 01:46 AM.
    "On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the Draft

    Settle down. John Harbaugh and Joe Flacco's Baltimore Ravens can beat any team, anywhere.

    Having fun talking football and tech stuff on Twitter @BigPlayReceiver




  15. #300

    Re: Marlon Brown

    On that slant for the TD he looked more like Smith than anyone else on the team. If he stays healthy, he could be quite the bookend for Torrey.




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