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  1. #46

    Re: Asa Jackson Suspended 8 games for violating PED Policy



    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    I think this was the problem. I would guess it was entirely Asa's and his agent's fault.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ons-by-sunday/
    And how does this address Jackson's claim that he did what he was supposed to do and the team doctor quit before turning his paperwork in on time?




  2. #47
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    Re: Asa Jackson Suspended 8 games for violating PED Policy

    RR21215-
    I hear you, but what would still bother me in that case is, why the Harbaugh comments, and why would not the team jump in publicly, explain that there WAS some administrative foul-up, and have Jackson's back? In fairness to Jackson, IFF he did everything that he was supposed to do and in a timely manner, I don't see how it would be on him to follow-up (or even be aware that the doctor left) on the processing of his paperwork. And if that is the case (that he did everything properly), I can't see why he wouldn't have a legitimate grievance through the NFLPA, or subsequent legal action against the team.

    I'm still unsure of what's going on, but I suspect the clouds are starting to part just a little here...




  3. #48
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    Re: Asa Jackson Suspended 8 games for violating PED Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    And how does this address Jackson's claim that he did what he was supposed to do and the team doctor quit before turning his paperwork in on time?
    If we assume that what he says is true (a big qualifier), then I see it as similar to some clients I have had that are charged with driving on suspended tag/registration. They know the deadline for the expiration, and although they swear that they sent the paperwork and money on time, they never got the sticker back for their tag; but still were driving on those tags. "I figured I did my part and the MVA screwed up." Except it is you that pays the penalty; and you knew you could not drive on that registration.

    Again, if we assume it is for the same condition as last year; and he took the hit for it then; how does it repeat this year. HR, may very well be right. The story Asa tells is more sympathetic. Shining a light on it raises serious questions, though.
    Captain Offense




  4. #49

    Re: Asa Jackson Suspended 8 games for violating PED Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Beau Petard View Post
    RR21215-
    I hear you, but what would still bother me in that case is, why the Harbaugh comments, and why would not the team jump in publicly, explain that there WAS some administrative foul-up, and have Jackson's back? In fairness to Jackson, IFF he did everything that he was supposed to do and in a timely manner, I don't see how it would be on him to follow-up (or even be aware that the doctor left) on the processing of his paperwork. And if that is the case (that he did everything properly), I can't see why he wouldn't have a legitimate grievance through the NFLPA, or subsequent legal action against the team.

    I'm still unsure of what's going on, but I suspect the clouds are starting to part just a little here...
    The Harbaugh statement bothers me a lot. It would SEEM to indicate that it's on Jackson, but it doesn't rule out closing ranks and displacing the blame onto Jackson. To me the "line in the sand" is whether or not Jackson appeals. I don't think the team can block him from appealing in order to cover up a possible team protocol snafu. All I'm saying is at this point I'm not going to jump onto the "blame Jackson" wagon.




  5. #50

    Re: Asa Jackson Suspended 8 games for violating PED Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Offense View Post
    If we assume that what he says is true (a big qualifier), then I see it as similar to some clients I have had that are charged with driving on suspended tag/registration. They know the deadline for the expiration, and although they swear that they sent the paperwork and money on time, they never got the sticker back for their tag; but still were driving on those tags. "I figured I did my part and the MVA screwed up." Except it is you that pays the penalty; and you knew you could not drive on that registration.

    Again, if we assume it is for the same condition as last year; and he took the hit for it then; how does it repeat this year. HR, may very well be right. The story Asa tells is more sympathetic. Shining a light on it raises serious questions, though.
    But the thing is...the team doctor DID quit. He's not making that up. It's a bit of a stretch analogy, but it's like Joe throwing the ball to Evans. He can't throw the ball AND catch the ball. If Jackson gave the necessary paperwork to the team doctor, he had the full right to expect the team doctor to turn in the paperwork to the league on time, not quit and fail to turn in the paperwork. IF, and again IF...that's what this is all about.

    Personally, I'd like to hear more of the facts before rushing to judgment on either side.




  6. #51

    Re: Asa Jackson Suspended 8 games for violating PED Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    But the thing is...the team doctor DID quit. He's not making that up. It's a bit of a stretch analogy, but it's like Joe throwing the ball to Evans. He can't throw the ball AND catch the ball. If Jackson gave the necessary paperwork to the team doctor, he had the full right to expect the team doctor to turn in the paperwork to the league on time, not quit and fail to turn in the paperwork. IF, and again IF...that's what this is all about.

    Personally, I'd like to hear more of the facts before rushing to judgment on either side.
    Still turning in paperwork DOES NOT mean it was approved by the NFL, so Asa should have waited until he received official word in writing that he could indeed take those meds. Sorry but no one can assume it was approved especially after serving a suspension the previous year.




  7. #52

    Re: Asa Jackson Suspended 8 games for violating PED Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    And how does this address Jackson's claim that he did what he was supposed to do and the team doctor quit before turning his paperwork in on time?
    Easily. A player's TUE is the player's responsibility. Which is why the NFLPA sent the letter to the players and their agents. Asking a team doctor to send in paperwork for you is no different, according to the league and its PED rules, than asking your uncle to send in the paperwork for you. In either case, whoever you ask to do it is not, in the end, responsible. You, the player, are responsible.

    It would be different if Asa was saying he turned in the paperwork to the LEAGUE and somehow the LEAGUE dropped the ball. And even then, turning in paperwork does not equal approval. The paperwork could be missing something the league needs, or simply the league could disallow the exemption. There needs to be an acceptance of the paperwork in order for the exemption to be valid.

    That Asa already had one strike and still did not absolutely make sure he was dotting all his i's and crossing all his t's makes it even harder to absolve him of blame.

    Now if you are talking about his salary being paid to him instead of simply the 8 game suspension, then that could be a different issue. And if the Ravens offer or encourage, as a team, to help their players with paperwork, and if Asa did what the team asked, and there was a ball dropped, and the team is somewhat responsible for the ball being dropped, then yes, I could see a good argument Asa should get paid. But regardless, he will and should miss 8 games.
    Last edited by Haloti92; 08-04-2013 at 01:49 PM.




  8. #53

    Re: Asa Jackson Suspended 8 games for violating PED Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    Easily. A player's TUE is the player's responsibility. Which is why the NFLPA sent the letter to the players and their agents. Asking a team doctor to send in paperwork for you is no different, according to the league and its PED rules, than asking your uncle to send in the paperwork for you. In either case, whoever you ask to do it is not, in the end, responsible. You, the player, are responsible.

    It would be different if Asa was saying he turned in the paperwork to the LEAGUE and somehow the LEAGUE dropped the ball. And even then, turning in paperwork does not equal approval. The paperwork could be missing something the league needs, or simply the league could disallow the exemption. There needs to be an acceptance of the paperwork in order for the exemption to be valid.

    That Asa already had one strike and still did not absolutely make sure he was dotting all his i's and crossing all his t's makes it even harder to absolve him of blame.

    Now if you are talking about his salary being paid to him instead of simply the 8 game suspension, then that could be a different issue. And if the Ravens offer or encourage, as a team, to help their players with paperwork, and if Asa did what the team asked, and there was a ball dropped, and the team is somewhat responsible for the ball being dropped, then yes, I could see a good argument Asa should get paid. But regardless, he will and should miss 8 games.
    It's not clear to me that the doctor isn't the "agent" in this case. I seriously doubt "agent" means his actual financial agent. An "agent" is a representative of the player. In this instance, since it's a medical situation, the "agent' might very well BE the doctor, and in that case, it IS the doctor's responsibility to turn in the necessary paperwork on time.




  9. #54

    Re: Asa Jackson Suspended 8 games for violating PED Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    It's not clear to me that the doctor isn't the "agent" in this case. I seriously doubt "agent" means his actual financial agent. And "agent" is a representative of the player. In this instance, since it's a medical situation, the "agent' might very well BE the doctor, and in that case, it IS the doctor's responsibility to turn in the necessary paperwork on time.
    The NFLPA is not sending letters to teams' employees. And "certified agent" means player's registered agent in terms of representation. There is no doubt about that.

    And also, it doesn't matter who the agent is, the player is responsible for choosing his agent and the actions of his agent. If the agent misses deadline/fax, the player suffers. If the agent does not make it clear the player needs to attend voluntary workouts to get $2M, the player suffers. If the agent forgets to send in paperwork for TUE, the player suffers. The player can sue the agent for the consequences of the agent's negligence perhaps, but that is irrelevant to the league's actions.

    Plus, you are ignoring the fact that a TUE is not automatically granted with the sending in of paperwork. It isn't, "I put it in the mailbox, time to start taking PEDs." It is "sent paperwork, waiting to see if I have an exemption to take PEDs." Asa has not, from what I have seen, ever claimed he was told he had received his TUE.




  10. #55

    Re: Asa Jackson Suspended 8 games for violating PED Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    The NFLPA is not sending letters to teams' employees. And "certified agent" means player's registered agent in terms of representation. There is no doubt about that.

    And also, it doesn't matter who the agent is, the player is responsible for choosing his agent and the actions of his agent. If the agent misses deadline/fax, the player suffers. If the agent does not make it clear the player needs to attend voluntary workouts to get $2M, the player suffers. If the agent forgets to send in paperwork for TUE, the player suffers. The player can sue the agent for the consequences of the agent's negligence perhaps, but that is irrelevant to the league's actions.

    Plus, you are ignoring the fact that a TUE is not automatically granted with the sending in of paperwork. It isn't, "I put it in the mailbox, time to start taking PEDs." It is "sent paperwork, waiting to see if I have an exemption to take PEDs." Asa has not, from what I have seen, ever claimed he was told he had received his TUE.
    Do you dedicate your life to arguing obscure points? If so, leave me out of it. I have no desire to keep arguing something about which we do not have all the facts. You want to? Do it by yourself, or with anyone else who cares to join you.




  11. #56

    Re: Asa Jackson Suspended 8 games for violating PED Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    Do you dedicate your life to arguing obscure points? If so, leave me out of it. I have no desire to keep arguing something about which we do not have all the facts. You want to? Do it by yourself, or with anyone else who cares to join you.
    Settle down. So your blind defense of Jackson has run headlong into reality and you can't come up with any other viable excuses. So your arguments are terrible, who cares? No need to lash out in frustration and anger.




  12. #57

    Re: Asa Jackson Suspended 8 games for violating PED Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    Settle down. So your blind defense of Jackson has run headlong into reality and you can't come up with any other viable excuses. So your arguments are terrible, who cares? No need to lash out in frustration and anger.
    Blind defense? LOL. Get over yourself, okay? If he's guilty, he's guilty. I could not care less. What makes this interesting is his claim that this situation resulted from a mistake on the doctor who quit and didn't get his paperwork in on time. All the rest is just your wild speculation and assumptions, while I'm saying wait until all the facts are in. You can't or won't do that, then you insist your speculations and assumptions are the gospel. I knew there was a reason I had you on ignore for 6 months. I should have never taken you off.




  13. #58
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    Re: Asa Jackson Suspended 8 games for violating PED Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    Blind defense? LOL. Get over yourself, okay? If he's guilty, he's guilty. I could not care less. What makes this interesting is his claim that this situation resulted from a mistake on the doctor who quit and didn't get his paperwork in on time. All the rest is just your wild speculation and assumptions, while I'm saying wait until all the facts are in. You can't or won't do that, then you insist your speculations and assumptions are the gospel. I knew there was a reason I had you on ignore for 6 months. I should have never taken you off.
    All the facts can't come in because the teams and the NFL aren't allowed to comment. The closest you are going to get is what Harbaugh said and he made it clear that in his opinion the suspension was justified.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  14. #59
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    Re: Asa Jackson Suspended 8 games for violating PED Policy

    Not to chime in at an awkward moment, but does anyone know the rules/policy on suspensions? I understand that "repeat offenders" would likely get a more severe punishment than a first timer, and obviously there would be different levels of severity for different offenses, but 8 games sounds pretty harsh for what Jackson is alleged to have done, particularly in light of what he alleges about the doctor's involvement, IMHO. Is that a standard, pre-determined type of ban for this type of situation (given that we also don't know all of the details of what's going on)?

    Thanks...




  15. #60

    Re: Asa Jackson Suspended 8 games for violating PED Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    Blind defense? LOL. Get over yourself, okay?
    Yep, blind defense. All of your weak points have been addressed. After the powerful counterpoints are provided, what do you do? Counter the counterpoints? Nope. Cover your ears, hum, ignore the counterpoints and simply re-bleat your already-addressed points. Get over myself indeed, LOL


    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    If he's guilty, he's guilty. I could not care less.
    He is guilty. He failed the test. He did not have a TUE when he did. Neither of these facts are in dispute by anyone, including Jackson. And obviously you could care a lot less, since you are so butt-hurt about losing a debate you start lashing out at innocent people who are simply countering your arguments.

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    What makes this interesting is his claim that this situation resulted from a mistake on the doctor who quit and didn't get his paperwork in on time.
    What makes this surreal (more than interesting) is that despite the fact it has been pointed out to you several times (by more than one person), you keep pretending that turning in paperwork is all that is required to start taking PEDs. Are you playing dumb? You also keep pretending that the LEAGUE and the TEAM are the same thing. Asa MIGHT have a gripe with his team, but he has no recourse with the LEAGUE. This has been said before, and ignored by you (of course), but ignoring it doesn't make it go away.


    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    All the rest is just your wild speculation and assumptions, while I'm saying wait until all the facts are in.
    What is "all the rest" that is being "wildly" speculated on? That Asa did not have a TUE when he failed the test? Nope, not speculation, hence the suspension. That in order to get a TUE you need to get approval of paperwork, not just send it in? Nope, fact. That you can't take PEDs and fail tests without a TUE? Nope, fact. That Asa has never once said that he received a TUE? Nope, fact. That the NFLPA sent letters to players and their certified agents to remind them specifically of the deadline to apply for TUE? Nope, fact. If anyone is "wildly" speculating it is you in your contortions to deny reality.


    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    You can't or won't do that, then you insist your speculations and assumptions are the gospel.
    Of the two of us, you are the one utterly ignoring the facts. And the facts you aren't ignoring, are ones that are not even in dispute or damaging, in the least, to the counterarguments, like....the team doctor quit, or his agent quit, or his dog ate his paperwork, or whatever other irrelevant-to-the-league-rules excuse you want to pointlessly provide.

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    I knew there was a reason I had you on ignore for 6 months. I should have never taken you off.
    Yes, as I recall, the reason was that you kept getting crushed in any debate we had. So by all means, spare yourself the embarrassment, and put me on ignore. Of course, you should also put on ignore the other 10 people on this thread who are pointing out the errors in your excuses as well. Might as well be consistent.




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