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Thread: Bradley Manning Verdict
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08-22-2013, 04:32 AM #13
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08-22-2013, 06:03 AM #14Legendary RSR Poster
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Re: Bradley Manning Verdict
Agreed.
And I'd add something else. Manning was in the military, thus forfeited his right to ever be the "messenger" in the first place.
This wasn't some pencil pusher at Apple upset because they stole some trade secrets from IBM and is now a whistleblower.
This is a guy who disobeyed direct orders and leaked secrets that compromised the safety of other military personnel because HE was opposed to something.
If he was so outraged, he could have just quit and spoken out against it, taken the information to a friendly Senator or Congressman, etc. Instead, he willfully violated his oath over and over again. Sounds incredibly selfish to me and he deserved what he got, though he should have been executed IMO.
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08-22-2013, 07:59 AM #15
Re: Bradley Manning Verdict
Master of 'Gifs for dummies'
"The world called for wetwork, and we answered. No greater good. No just cause." - Kazuhira Miller
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08-22-2013, 08:13 AM #16Veteran Poster
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08-22-2013, 08:26 AM #17Veteran Poster
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Re: Bradley Manning Verdict
If he was so outraged, he could have just quit and spoken out against it, taken the information to a friendly Senator or Congressman, etc. Instead, he willfully violated his oath over and over again. Sounds incredibly selfish to me and he deserved what he got, though he should have been executed IMO.
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08-22-2013, 08:44 AM #18Legendary RSR Poster
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Re: Bradley Manning Verdict
Support and Defend =/= Interpret and Act when you enlist.
Dade is 100% correct. A military contract is basically a waiver of your Constitutional rights. You're military property at that point, irrelevant of your personal opinions. You're expected and agree to the orders given by those in your chain of command. A soldier, by definition and under their voluntary contract, cannot interpret what is and isn't constitutional.
There's a legal and ethical process in place if the military / country is doing something that doesn't confirm with your ethics and he ignored that process in favor of making it no longer about whatever outrage was occurring, favoring a action that made it about him personally.
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08-22-2013, 08:45 AM #19Legendary RSR Poster
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08-22-2013, 08:53 AM #20Veteran Poster
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Re: Bradley Manning Verdict
Here's one...this one doesn't deal with national security secrets, but it is symbolic of how the Obama Administration handles whistleblowers. I will go find some more...just a few...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...677_story.html
Here's another that talks about many of these people...many of them tried to "do it the right way"...it is easy to see why some may choose the way that Snowden or Manning did.
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2...cy-apple-store
Here's another that talks about the misleading protections that the Obama administration has claimed are there for whistleblowers to "do it the right way."
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2...licy-directive
To be clear, I am not in favor of the way Manning exposed what he thought were government misdeeds: dumping documents and files on to WikiLeaks indiscriminately certainly may have endangered lives.
Snowden on the other hand seemed to be more discriminating in the information he released, and contrary to government claims, no one has been able to make the case he directly but anyone's life in danger.
But if all whistleblowers are treated the same, with the full force of the US government (and their allies) trying to basically crush their lives, you certainly can't expect people to report abuses via the official channels and you can expect more of type of leaks like Snowden and Manning.Last edited by JohnBKistler; 08-22-2013 at 09:05 AM.
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Re: Bradley Manning Verdict
Because you're defending it for everyone else, not necessarily yourself. When you swear in, you are swearing to abide by the orders of those appointed over you. When you wear the uniform, you can't just do whatever you want and call it "Freedom of Speech".
Sailor's Creed:
I am a United States Sailor.
I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America and I will obey the orders of those appointed over me.
I represent the fighting spirit of the Navy and those who have gone before me to defend freedom and democracy around the world.
I proudly serve my country's Navy combat team with Honor, Courage and Commitment.
I am committed to excellence and the fair treatment of all.
And the whole "giving up freedom of speech" thing is a little overblown. It is all about context.
If you go to a rally or something that is controversial and you are active duty and wear your uniform, you are effectively representing the US Military. You'll get in trouble for that. Don't be dumb. If you think it will get you in trouble, it probably will.
When I was in Penascola, we had a girl go to one of the local bars (won't name the name of the bar...but if you've been to Pensacola, you know what I'm talking about) and decided to participate in their wet t-shirt contest...she was wearing a command hat and someone video taped it, posted it on Facebook saying something like "Hey look! Navy girls showing it off!". Long and short, she got in trouble for it and went to a DRB and almost went to Captain's Mast (Article 15 for all you weirdo non-Navy folk :D ).Last edited by wickedsolo; 08-22-2013 at 09:04 AM.
Disclaimer: The content posted is of my own opinion.
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08-22-2013, 09:12 AM #22Veteran Poster
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08-22-2013, 09:58 AM #23
Re: Bradley Manning Verdict
It's called military expression. The Supreme Court has ruled that while service members have the right to free speech it is a limited right. Whistleblowing and publicly supporting a candidate or political party is prohibted.
There is a process for both enlisted and officers to legally and constitutionly whisteblow and become invovled in politics. Chief among them is if you disagree with a order from a superior officer or the President you can renounce your enlistment or commission. Manning did not follow any of this procedures.
This is done to keep a clear line between the military and politics (i.e. government). Image if a 4 star General was able to express his political views publicly, or whisteblow some of the governments secrets. He/she could gain enough political captia to start a military-coup.Master of 'Gifs for dummies'
"The world called for wetwork, and we answered. No greater good. No just cause." - Kazuhira Miller
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08-22-2013, 10:04 AM #24
Re: Bradley Manning Verdict
Any order that is unmoral or unconstitutional need not be follow. However like I said before there is a process to decline any order.
I disobeyed several orders during my Air Force career. But I always did it properly.
Oath of Service:
"I, XXXXXXXXXX, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."Master of 'Gifs for dummies'
"The world called for wetwork, and we answered. No greater good. No just cause." - Kazuhira Miller
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