What If It Wasn't Cam?

[ActualSpamBot]

Baltimore fans overvalue Boldin. He's clearly a number 2 on any other team. We gotta let it go. He had a great post-season, but please...

It happens every single year. There's a crowd that becomes convinced that they know better than Oz on one player move or another. And every year Oz hits on far far far more than he misses. Sometimes the crowd gets lucky and calls a mistake in advance, but rarely do they own up when they're wrong.

No one is immune. I remember thinking it was a mistake not to cut McKinnie during training camp last year.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

How can you disagree when that is basically the objectively known thought process Ozzie had? I don't have sources for you but if you've been following this team as closely as you seem to, you should be well aware of that already.

Are you serious?

Are you asking me how I could dare disagree with Ozzie? Or are you asking me why I disagree with him?

For the former, I love Ozzie and wouldn't have any other GM in the league running my team. However, it is not blasphemy to disagree with a move he makes. He would be the first to tell anyone that he is not perfect and all of his moves do not work out. This is a move I disagree with.

To the latter, I have addressed this quite a bit in prior posts in this thread.

#1. I think it's borderline hypocritical to expect Joe and everybody else's numbers and effectiveness to increase exponentially with Cam no longer in the picture...using the playoffs as a baseline for how good guys can look...yet apparently ignore how Boldin exploded as well in the playoffs with Caldwell. I would have every expectation that just like Joe and others, Boldins numbers would increase as well. I mean all of us point to his playoff numbers when these national idiots say dumb things like "Joe Flacco couldn't even complete 60% of his passes". But we are quick to say, "well Boldin only had 65catches".

#2. I think $7 million cap number is not this outrageous number for Boldin...I'd pay that in a second for him, even if much of it is based on what he does in the playoffs. That is barely third tier WR cap money for a guy who just dominated in the playoffs.

#3. We should stop saying that the team "couldn't" make the additions we made with Boldin on the roster. They surely could have as I explained in earlier posts. They didn't "want" to keep him at that cap number. There is a difference.

Now, I'm not here to try and bash anybody for not agreeing with me...we are all entitled to our opinions and Ozzie is no fool. However, because Ozzie made a decision doesn't mean I have to like/agree with it and it doesn't mean it's a sure bet to work out.

Who knows what will happen with these WR's, they may come through, they may disappoint. Ozzie may make a move for all we know (depending on who it would be, it would obviously have an impact on my opinion). I have my doubts though and I don't think it's insane to think so.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[callahan09]

Are you serious?

Are you asking me how I could dare disagree with Ozzie? Or are you asking me why I disagree with him?

For the former, I love Ozzie and wouldn't have any other GM in the league running my team. However, it is not blasphemy to disagree with a move he makes. He would be the first to tell anyone that he is not perfect and all of his moves do not work out. This is a move I disagree with.

To the latter, I have addressed this quite a bit in prior posts in this thread.

#1. I think it's borderline hypocritical to expect Joe and everybody else's numbers and effectiveness to increase exponentially with Cam no longer in the picture...using the playoffs as a baseline for how good guys can look...yet apparently ignore how Boldin exploded as well in the playoffs with Caldwell. I would have every expectation that just like Joe and others, Boldins numbers would increase as well. I mean all of us point to his playoff numbers when these national idiots say dumb things like "Joe Flacco couldn't even complete 60% of his passes". But we are quick to say, "well Boldin only had 65catches".

#2. I think $7 million cap number is not this outrageous number for Boldin...I'd pay that in a second for him, even if much of it is based on what he does in the playoffs. That is barely third tier WR cap money for a guy who just dominated in the playoffs.

#3. We should stop saying that the team "couldn't" make the additions we made with Boldin on the roster. They surely could have as I explained in earlier posts. They didn't "want" to keep him at that cap number. There is a difference.

Now, I'm not here to try and bash anybody for not agreeing with me...we are all entitled to our opinions and Ozzie is no fool. However, because Ozzie made a decision doesn't mean I have to like/agree with it and it doesn't mean it's a sure bet to work out.

Who knows what will happen with these WR's, they may come through, they may disappoint. Ozzie may make a move for all we know (depending on who it would be, it would obviously have an impact on my opinion). I have my doubts though and I don't think it's insane to think so.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Actually I was just asking how you can disagree with BigFish. You responded to his post so to me I thought you were saying you disagree with him about Ozzie's thought process, not that you acknowledge that and disagree with the thought process itself. Just a failure of a communication I guess.

[RavensRule21215]

Are you serious?

Are you asking me how I could dare disagree with Ozzie? Or are you asking me why I disagree with him?

For the former, I love Ozzie and wouldn't have any other GM in the league running my team. However, it is not blasphemy to disagree with a move he makes. He would be the first to tell anyone that he is not perfect and all of his moves do not work out. This is a move I disagree with.

To the latter, I have addressed this quite a bit in prior posts in this thread.

#1. I think it's borderline hypocritical to expect Joe and everybody else's numbers and effectiveness to increase exponentially with Cam no longer in the picture...using the playoffs as a baseline for how good guys can look...yet apparently ignore how Boldin exploded as well in the playoffs with Caldwell. I would have every expectation that just like Joe and others, Boldins numbers would increase as well. I mean all of us point to his playoff numbers when these national idiots say dumb things like "Joe Flacco couldn't even complete 60% of his passes". But we are quick to say, "well Boldin only had 65catches".

#2. I think $7 million cap number is not this outrageous number for Boldin...I'd pay that in a second for him, even if much of it is based on what he does in the playoffs. That is barely third tier WR cap money for a guy who just dominated in the playoffs.

#3. We should stop saying that the team "couldn't" make the additions we made with Boldin on the roster. They surely could have as I explained in earlier posts. They didn't "want" to keep him at that cap number. There is a difference.

Now, I'm not here to try and bash anybody for not agreeing with me...we are all entitled to our opinions and Ozzie is no fool. However, because Ozzie made a decision doesn't mean I have to like/agree with it and it doesn't mean it's a sure bet to work out.

Who knows what will happen with these WR's, they may come through, they may disappoint. Ozzie may make a move for all we know (depending on who it would be, it would obviously have an impact on my opinion). I have my doubts though and I don't think it's insane to think so.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

All I think callahan09 is saying is that the FO came out publicly and stated that they would not fall into the trap of paying aging vets top dollar. Ed Reed was one example. And Boldin is another. He's asking you how you can disagree with what happened with Boldin since it was 100% consistent with what they said they would and/or would not do. And they stuck to their guns. So what callahan09 is saying, I think, is not that the money technically wasn't there for Boldin, but that according to the plan of not paying aging vets top dollar, the decision to not pay Boldin $6M is consistent with that approach. Now you may not feel that Boldin falls into that category of "aging vet they're not willing to overpay", but clearly the FO did feel that way.

[shana]

Are you serious?

Are you asking me how I could dare disagree with Ozzie? Or are you asking me why I disagree with him?

For the former, I love Ozzie and wouldn't have any other GM in the league running my team. However, it is not blasphemy to disagree with a move he makes. He would be the first to tell anyone that he is not perfect and all of his moves do not work out. This is a move I disagree with.

To the latter, I have addressed this quite a bit in prior posts in this thread.

#1. I think it's borderline hypocritical to expect Joe and everybody else's numbers and effectiveness to increase exponentially with Cam no longer in the picture...using the playoffs as a baseline for how good guys can look...yet apparently ignore how Boldin exploded as well in the playoffs with Caldwell. I would have every expectation that just like Joe and others, Boldins numbers would increase as well. I mean all of us point to his playoff numbers when these national idiots say dumb things like "Joe Flacco couldn't even complete 60% of his passes". But we are quick to say, "well Boldin only had 65catches".

#2. I think $7 million cap number is not this outrageous number for Boldin...I'd pay that in a second for him, even if much of it is based on what he does in the playoffs. That is barely third tier WR cap money for a guy who just dominated in the playoffs.

#3. We should stop saying that the team "couldn't" make the additions we made with Boldin on the roster. They surely could have as I explained in earlier posts. They didn't "want" to keep him at that cap number. There is a difference.

Now, I'm not here to try and bash anybody for not agreeing with me...we are all entitled to our opinions and Ozzie is no fool. However, because Ozzie made a decision doesn't mean I have to like/agree with it and it doesn't mean it's a sure bet to work out.

Who knows what will happen with these WR's, they may come through, they may disappoint. Ozzie may make a move for all we know (depending on who it would be, it would obviously have an impact on my opinion). I have my doubts though and I don't think it's insane to think so.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

But would you not rather save money and see if the many receivers that Ozzie has drafted are actually good? It is a dangerous proposition, but it may yield good results. I completely see your point on not being sold on the WRs. I have the same concerns. However, it has come to the point with this receiving corps that it is IMPERATIVE that we see them play this year out. As of right now we have three absolute viable receiving options (Torrey, Dickson, Jacoby). Then behind them we have LaQuan, Reed, Mellette, Doss, Thompson (I feel like I am forgetting someone). How do you have that many receivers just chilling on a roster? You have got to see if these guys can play. No more stop gaps.

[Bigfish]

But would you not rather save money and see if the many receivers that Ozzie has drafted are actually good? It is a dangerous proposition, but it may yield good results. I completely see your point on not being sold on the WRs. I have the same concerns. However, it has come to the point with this receiving corps that it is IMPERATIVE that we see them play this year out. As of right now we have three absolute viable receiving options (Torrey, Dickson, Jacoby). Then behind them we have LaQuan, Reed, Mellette, Doss, Thompson (I feel like I am forgetting someone). How do you have that many receivers just chilling on a roster? You have got to see if these guys can play. No more stop gaps.

:word

Well said. No turning back now.

[RavensRule21215]

But would you not rather save money and see if the many receivers that Ozzie has drafted are actually good? It is a dangerous proposition, but it may yield good results.

It's too dangerous a proposition, IMO. And while it's one thing to trade Boldin, it's another to rely on totally unknown quantities, when there were proven, productive NFL caliber WRs available via FA, AND the money was there right up until Leach was re-signed. And the fact that the FO chose differently is one thing; I'm not bound to agree that everything they do is correct, nor do they themselves believe that everything they do is correct.

[shana]

It's too dangerous a proposition, IMO. And while it's one thing to trade Boldin, it's another to rely on totally unknown quantities, when there were proven, productive NFL caliber WRs available via FA, AND the money was there right up until Leach was re-signed. And the fact that the FO chose differently is one thing; I'm not bound to agree that everything they do is correct, nor do they themselves believe that everything they do is correct.

I hear you, but everyone was once an "unknown quantity". And by proven productive WRs available via FA who are you referring to?

[RavensRule21215]

I hear you, but everyone was once an "unknown quantity". And by proven productive WRs available via FA who are you referring to?

And most teams rely on proven commodities and only then test the waters with the unknown quantities. As far as which FA WRs were/are still available, I've already listed them earlier, but I'll list them again: Lloyd, Breaston, Ducett, for 3 examples. And I'll toss in Moss as well.

[Haloti92]

Are you serious?

Are you asking me how I could dare disagree with Ozzie? Or are you asking me why I disagree with him?

For the former, I love Ozzie and wouldn't have any other GM in the league running my team. However, it is not blasphemy to disagree with a move he makes. He would be the first to tell anyone that he is not perfect and all of his moves do not work out. This is a move I disagree with.

To the latter, I have addressed this quite a bit in prior posts in this thread.

#1. I think it's borderline hypocritical to expect Joe and everybody else's numbers and effectiveness to increase exponentially with Cam no longer in the picture...using the playoffs as a baseline for how good guys can look...yet apparently ignore how Boldin exploded as well in the playoffs with Caldwell. I would have every expectation that just like Joe and others, Boldins numbers would increase as well. I mean all of us point to his playoff numbers when these national idiots say dumb things like "Joe Flacco couldn't even complete 60% of his passes". But we are quick to say, "well Boldin only had 65catches".

#2. I think $7 million cap number is not this outrageous number for Boldin...I'd pay that in a second for him, even if much of it is based on what he does in the playoffs. That is barely third tier WR cap money for a guy who just dominated in the playoffs.

#3. We should stop saying that the team "couldn't" make the additions we made with Boldin on the roster. They surely could have as I explained in earlier posts. They didn't "want" to keep him at that cap number. There is a difference.

Now, I'm not here to try and bash anybody for not agreeing with me...we are all entitled to our opinions and Ozzie is no fool. However, because Ozzie made a decision doesn't mean I have to like/agree with it and it doesn't mean it's a sure bet to work out.

Who knows what will happen with these WR's, they may come through, they may disappoint. Ozzie may make a move for all we know (depending on who it would be, it would obviously have an impact on my opinion). I have my doubts though and I don't think it's insane to think so.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

100% agree with every thought, point, sentence here (and have since the trade happened).

Boldin was instrumental in our championship. No Boldin, no title last year.

We traded him because he wouldn't give up $2M in pay for $2M in cap space, which means we did not think he was washed up (we just tried to scrimp on his cap figure).

We had much more obvious "fat" we could have cut to get that $2M.

And Pitta's loss exacerbates the problem of getting rid of Boldin.

As for Ozzie trying not to "repeat" his previous "mistake" after our first title, this doesn't come close to that scenario. For one thing there would have been zero longterm (past 2013) cap damage from keeping Boldin for 2013; no restructuring needed from anyone, we had/have the room. It is a single player, who was very close to as valuable as his cap number, if not as valuable (not really the case with Ed Reed). And we won a playoff game the year after our last title, and the primary reason we didn't do better than that, besides unpredictable, big injuries, was we replaced a player from the championship team (not stood pat when we shouldn't have, as people are arguing with Boldin).

[The Excellector]

What are we talking about here. Torrey is established. Otherwise, he wouldn't be getting doubled and what happened in Denver would have been happening every week. Pitta was established. Rice out of the backfield is established.

We're essentially talking about a slot WR.

[iggyman555]

i remember folks freaking out when we cut heap and had unknown pitta and dickson