What If It Wasn't Cam?

[Haloti92]

We are talking about 2012 postseason stats:

Torrey Smith - 11 catches for 233 yards, 2 TDs, 6 catches of 20+ yds, 9 first down catches.

Jacoby Jones - 5 catches for 147 yards, 2 TDs, 2 catches of 20+ yds, 3 first down catches

Dennis Pitta - 14 catches for 163 yards, 3 TDs, 3 catches of 20+ yds, 10 first down catches

and

Anquan Boldin - 22 catches for 380 yards, 4 TDs, 6 catches of 20+ yds, 19 first down catches

[RavensRule21215]

What are we talking about here. Torrey is established. Otherwise, he wouldn't be getting doubled and what happened in Denver would have been happening every week. Pitta was established. Rice out of the backfield is established.

We're essentially talking about a slot WR.

Yes. We're talking about a proven #2 WR to replace Boldin.

[Haloti92]

i remember folks freaking out when we cut heap and had unknown pitta and dickson

Not remotely comparable, imo.

We drafted 2 TEs in early-middle rounds specifically to replace Heap.

Heap missed 3 games to injury the year before he was cut, and his body was close to the breaking point.

His stats were 40 rec. for 599 yds, 5 TDs

We were not coming off of a dominant playoff run and title (where Heap was a linchpin).

[srobert96]

It's too dangerous a proposition, IMO. And while it's one thing to trade Boldin, it's another to rely on totally unknown quantities, when there were proven, productive NFL caliber WRs available via FA, AND the money was there right up until Leach was re-signed. And the fact that the FO chose differently is one thing; I'm not bound to agree that everything they do is correct, nor do they themselves believe that everything they do is correct.

They are totally unknown quantities to those of us on a message board but not to Ozzie and the coaches. These guys really have not gotten much of a chance because the Ravens did not utilize three wr sets very often with Cam. They see them every day in practice.

With Pitta the Ravens would not have needed Boldin. Pitta was going to be used in the slot with Dickson at WR. Boldin was terrible on the outside. The goal was always to put Jones and or Thompson on the outside to force the defense to cover the whole field. With Dickson and Pitta Boldin became an expensive luxury to have.

Every year teams go into the season with unknowns. That is the salary cap era. The Ravens were in good shape until Pitta went down.

[shana]

i remember folks freaking out when we cut heap and had unknown pitta and dickson

Exactly.

[shana]

And most teams rely on proven commodities and only then test the waters with the unknown quantities. As far as which FA WRs were/are still available, I've already listed them earlier, but I'll list them again: Lloyd, Breaston, Ducett, for 3 examples. And I'll toss in Moss as well.

I just don't think guys like that are the answer (really Moss?). The reason the the younger WRs are such unknown is because every year some veteran WR is brought in to take reps from them. I just really think you should be making this argument in a year. I would much rather the younger guys go out and completely suck than not knowing what they are capable of and because we brought in yet another veteran. If they fail they fail and we know that Ozzie cannot draft WRs. Just let the year play out before we pine over Boldin.

[The Excellector]

Yes. We're talking about a proven #2 WR to replace Boldin.

We're talking about a slot guy who went beast mode on #3 CBs and Ss.

I almost thought we were talking about the guy who was abusing the Champ Bailey's of the world.

[The Excellector]

Not remotely comparable, imo.

We drafted 2 TEs in early-middle rounds specifically to replace Heap.

Heap missed 3 games to injury the year before he was cut, and his body was close to the breaking point.

His stats were 40 rec. for 599 yds, 5 TDs

We were not coming off of a dominant playoff run and title (where Heap was a linchpin).

3rd round is mid round. There was no early-mid round. Pitta was a late third round pick.

[Haloti92]

3rd round is mid round. There was no early-mid round. Pitta was a late third round pick.

Dickson was taken with the 6th pick of the 3rd round (the 70th pick of a 255 pick draft). Pitta was taken with the 16th pick of the 4th round (the 114th pick of 255).

My point remains, obviously. There is nothing really comparable in the Heap/Boldin situations, in terms of quality of player leaving, health of player leaving, planning to replace player leaving, and state of the team when player left.

[B-more Ravor]

I don't feel that way at all.

We've been consistently between $3-7 million under the cap.

I said at the very start of UFA, I would have cut Leach, no questions asked at the very beginning. I also would have cut McClain from the jump as I've never been a fan and as a replacement level LB, he was overpaid while there have always been LBs at that level available for peanuts (not to mention I never felt confident that he would ever play again even back then).

I mean, just because I'm talking about those moves now doesn't mean that they weren't options then...or could have been while perusing Doom and Huff.

With all due respect, IMO, they could not have done what they have done - even had they not re-signed Leach and had cut McClain - without reducing Boldin's Cap number or making some other move (ie not signing someone they did, releasing someone else or restructuring a deal of some other player).

Prior to re-signing Leach, but factoring in injuries to Pitta and Jensen, I would have expected them to have around $2.5-3M in space going into the season. If they had released McClain, that would only make roughly a $1.4M net difference, so that would have them at $3.9-4.4M under, pending further injuries.

That still wouldn't cover Boldin at $6M, without other moves or changes to what they did do.

Also, FWIW, I do believe that if Boldin had accepted their restructure request, that they would have released Leach at that time. Since he didn't, they felt they could hold onto Leach for longer to see how their other additions played out in terms of Cap space.

[The Excellector]

With all due respect, they could not have done what they have done - even had they not re-signed Leach and had cut McClain - without reducing Boldin's Cap number or making some other move (ie not signing someone they did, releasing someone else or restructuring a deal of some other player).

Prior to re-signing Leach, but factoring in injuries to Pitta and Jensen, I would have expected them to have around $2.5-3M in space going into the season. If they had released McClain, that would only make roughly a $1.4M net difference, so that would have them at $3.9-4.4M under, pending further injuries.

That still wouldn't cover Boldin at $6M, without other moves or changes to what they did do.

Also, FWIW, I do believe that if Boldin had accepted their restructure request, that they would have released Leach at that time.

So basically, while we were looking strictly at the cap, at the time, you have taken into account how the rule of 51 impacted it at the time and will do so in the future?

[B-more Ravor]

So basically, while we were looking strictly at the cap, at the time, you have taken into account how the rule of 51 impacted it at the time and will do so in the future?

Yes, correct. When the season starts, all players on the 53, PUP, IR, PS will count against the Cap. Injuries will hurt the Cap space and they'll need to carry excess into the season to protect against that (or restructure someone down the road if it gets too tight).