The Foundation of the Passing Offense is still Intact.

**wickedsolo** · 07-30-2013, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by RavensRule21215

Baloney. First of all, Joe IS worthy of his contract. Second, NO QB has ever achieved elite status with crap WRs. NONE. Even going back to Johnny U. So this BS about putting it on Joe to turn garbage into stars is nonsense. And finally, Joe has ALREADY done more with mediocre WRs than any other QB in his grouping. Matty Meltdown has pro bowlers left and right and his stats are only marginally better than Joe's, and his post season success can't even compare. So the notion that Joe has something to prove when it comes to sub par WRs is absurd.

You do know that you are arguing with a guy who has been on the "Average Joe" train since he was drafted?

**RavensRule21215** · 07-30-2013, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

You do know that you are arguing with a guy who has been on the "Average Joe" train since he was drafted?

No. But it doesn't surprise me. And it doesn't change reality -- Joe has proven himself time and time again. So if this guy wants to keep spewing crap, and no one else cares to set him straight, I'll be glad to oblige. At least for a while. After that, I'll just let it go.

**JohnBKistler** · 07-30-2013, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by RavensRule21215

It's preposterous to expect Joe and Caldwell to magically "make it effective" without the personnel to allow that to happen.

Originally Posted by RavensRule21215

Second, NO QB has ever achieved elite status with crap WRs. NONE. Even going back to Johnny U. So this BS about putting it on Joe to turn garbage into stars is nonsense.

You think Torrey Smith, Ed Dickson (who only 1 season ago had more catches than Pitta) and Ray Rice out of the backfield is "garbage"? Interesting.

I don't agree with you.

**leachisabeast** · 07-30-2013, 03:34 PM

I've already said that this team's main strength will be a physical down hill running game with a very strong defensive front that will create multiple 3 and outs. We could end up having one of the best pass rush in the league, and we get Webb back at corner, who along with Elam, will make plays all over the field. What we lost in the passing offense, we made up for on defense which was a huge weakness last season.

With Caldwell in place at OC, the passing offense will be more effective even with less than what Cam had to work with. We have a massive Oline that can give Joe enough time and can punish smaller defensive fronts in the run game. Let's not forget about Rice, Pierce and Leach.

Basically I see us being the same old Ravens that win a bunch of games by physically imposing our will. Only this time, we have an OC who can adapt and change the game plan, and a QB who can make all the throws.

**GOTA** · 07-30-2013, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by RavensNTerps

This. If Joe Flacco is worthy of his contract his play will make the WRs effective. Did Drew Brees have more "proven" WRs in his time in New Orleans? Hell no.

If Flacco is worthy of his contract than his play will turn at least one of Thompson, Reed, Williams, Doss, Streeter or the Elon guy into a solid enough WR.

I agree. Eli Manning turned Steve Smith, Mario Manningham and Kevin Boss into good starting pass catchers. In fact they've now had 3 different Tight Ends in 3 years with big numbers. The only constant is Manning. Joe Flacco is being paid to do the same thing. At least 1 of those guys is going to have a ton of balls thrown his way and is going to step up.

**alien bird** · 07-30-2013, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by RavensRule21215

Baloney. First of all, Joe IS worthy of his contract. Second, NO QB has ever achieved elite status with crap WRs. NONE. Even going back to Johnny U. So this BS about putting it on Joe to turn garbage into stars is nonsense.

But it's certainly not out the realm of possibilities to expect a QB as good as Joe can be to make average guys a lot better than they are. It's not like the Ravens suddenly have Kyle Boller throwing to Demetrius Williams.

**GaTechRavens** · 07-30-2013, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by RavensRule21215

Second, NO QB has ever achieved elite status with crap WRs. NONE. Even going back to Johnny U.

You quite literally just made this up on the spot..

**callahan09** · 07-30-2013, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by RavensNTerps

This. If Joe Flacco is worthy of his contract his play will make the WRs effective. Did Drew Brees have more "proven" WRs in his time in New Orleans? Hell no.

If Flacco is worthy of his contract than his play will turn at least one of Thompson, Reed, Williams, Doss, Streeter or the Elon guy into a solid enough WR.

I think it's a logical flaw to imply (or flat-out say, as some have) that Tom Brady makes his receivers good. I think his receivers would want a word with you on that line of thinking. No, they were good while playing with Tom Brady. There's a difference. They got open and caught the ball when it came to them, and they got yards after the catch. If the receivers don't, can't, or won't do those things, the quarterback is meaningless. Being accurate and having good timing doesn't do much for you if there's nobody to safely throw the ball to or if they don't catch it when it comes their way. We need our receivers to perform to that level. Joe Flacco can't "make them" do it and it's not his fault if they don't. If the players just don't have it, the quarterback being able to make the throws isn't going to make them suddenly get separation and catch the ball.

**srobert96** · 07-30-2013, 04:14 PM

Couple of thoughts on the offense. We don't know how it is going to do because we don't know if players are going to step up or not. The NFL in the salary cap era makes teams go into seasons with unproven players. I can tell you the one thing that rarely if ever works is bringing in burned out veterans on the downside of their career.

It is not on Joe to get the most out the receivers that are on the squad but rather on Caldwell. Green Bay has rotated wrs in and out with success because of the offense they run and the plays they call. Rogers is a great QB but it also helps that the OC creates mismatches for him to exploit. Cam ran the offense he wanted to run regardless of the players and opponent. That is why you have seen all the top offensive players go through droughts while he was OC. You can only run Torrey on so many go routes before defenses start bracketing him.

Pitta will be sorely missed but I won't miss Boldin. If you take the playoffs out of it Boldin was the 4th best player on offense last year behind Flacco, Tsmith, Rice and Pitta. With Pitta out we could certainly use Boldin. The biggest drag on the offense last year was having Boldin as a #2. Play action out of the I was not effective because teams would cover him with a corner no problem. Tsmith would be bracketed. Joe ended up throwing it up for grabs to Smith hoping for a PI most of the time as no one was open. The offense did not start having success until they moved Boldin inside and put Jones on outside. If Thompson and Jones can burn a few corners on the outside it will open up things.

**NCRAVEN** · 07-30-2013, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by srobert96

Couple of thoughts on the offense. We don't know how it is going to do because we don't know if players are going to step up or not. The NFL in the salary cap era makes teams go into seasons with unproven players. I can tell you the one thing that rarely if ever works is bringing in burned out veterans on the downside of their career.

It is not on Joe to get the most out the receivers that are on the squad but rather on Caldwell. Green Bay has rotated wrs in and out with success because of the offense they run and the plays they call. Rogers is a great QB but it also helps that the OC creates mismatches for him to exploit. Cam ran the offense he wanted to run regardless of the players and opponent. That is why you have seen all the top offensive players go through droughts while he was OC. You can only run Torrey on so many go routes before defenses start bracketing him.

Pitta will be sorely missed but I won't miss Boldin. If you take the playoffs out of it Boldin was the 4th best player on offense last year behind Flacco, Tsmith, Rice and Pitta. With Pitta out we could certainly use Boldin. The biggest drag on the offense last year was having Boldin as a #2. Play action out of the I was not effective because teams would cover him with a corner no problem. Tsmith would be bracketed. Joe ended up throwing it up for grabs to Smith hoping for a PI most of the time as no one was open. The offense did not start having success until they moved Boldin inside and put Jones on outside. If Thompson and Jones can burn a few corners on the outside it will open up things.

:word

**RavensRule21215** · 07-30-2013, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by JohnBKistler

You think Torrey Smith, Ed Dickson (who only 1 season ago had more catches than Pitta) and Ray Rice out of the backfield is "garbage"? Interesting.

I don't agree with you.

No problem. Torrey Smith, Ed Dickson, and Ray Rice are never going to be confused with Julio Jones, Roddy White, Tony Gonzales, and Michael Turner. (And "garbage" was primarily a reference to David Reed & Tandon Doss, the names the Ravens have been using as the reason they didn't pick up any proven NFL WRs. But Ed "Stone Hands" Dickson could easily fall into that category as well, and to date even Jacoby Jones has not established himself as a bona fide NFL #2 WR either.)

What's funny is how commentators talk incessantly about the need to surround QBs with high level talent if they want the offense to get to the next level. Except when it comes to Joe.

**Bigfish** · 07-30-2013, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by RavensRule21215

No problem. Torrey Smith, Ed Dickson, and Ray Rice are never going to be confused with Julio Jones, Roddy White, Tony Gonzales, and Michael Turner.

We don't have the personnel to match Atlanta in the passing game. They designed their offense to play in the dome. But they were also 29th in the league for rushing. We'll be more balanced.