Results 37 to 48 of 156
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07-30-2013, 04:57 PM #37Pro Bowl Poster
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Re: The Foundation of the Passing Offense is still Intact.
And my whole point IS that the Ravens don't have the personnel to match Atlanta in the passing game. And even WITH that, AND playing in a dome, Joe's stats, when compared to Ryan's, are not all that different. And Joe blows Ryan away in the post season. Yet people still rag on Joe. It's insane.
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07-30-2013, 05:39 PM #38Steve Flacco, Apparently
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Re: The Foundation of the Passing Offense is still Intact.
My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron
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07-30-2013, 05:59 PM #40Steve Flacco, Apparently
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Re: The Foundation of the Passing Offense is still Intact.
My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron
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Re: The Foundation of the Passing Offense is still Intact.
I think some are really overestimating how difficult it will be for this year's passing offense to be an improvement over last year's (Regular Season).
"Please take with you this final sword, The Excellector. I am praying that your journey will be guided by the light", Leon Shore
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07-30-2013, 06:56 PM #43Veteran Poster
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Re: The Foundation of the Passing Offense is still Intact.
They didn't lose the opportunity on the field. Someone else is going to replace those numbers from both the WR and TE positions. It is absurd to think that there aren't guys on this roster that can duplicate that level of play. Neither guy was elite, and the Ravens FO is one of the top 3 talent evaluators in the league, so ou can try and invalidate my point, I will let the season play out and one of us will be proven wrong.
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07-31-2013, 08:57 AM #44Pro Bowl Poster
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Re: The Foundation of the Passing Offense is still Intact.
Yup and do you really think that guys like James Jones, Randall Cobb, Lance Moore, Marques Colston, etc. would be anything without playing with the QBs with whom they play? Go back to the old Colts teams with guys like Austin Collie and Pierre Garcon making plays. And you nailed it with the Eli Manning comp. Kevin Boss, Jake Ballard, Martellus Bennett, Steve Smith, Victor Cruz, etc.
Not saying that a handful of these guys wouldn't succeed in any circumstance but the truth is they were all products of their QB. If Joe is truly worth his contract than not having 4 pro bowlers to throw to shouldn't matter much.
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07-31-2013, 09:38 AM #45
Re: The Foundation of the Passing Offense is still Intact.
I'm curious, how exactly do you make your determination that a player was a product of their QB?
Let's take a guy like Austin Collie... is he a product of his QB just because he was a 4th round pick? Can you not just be a good player on your own merit if you weren't an early round draft pick? Or is it because he hasn't done much since Peyton Manning left town? But that's irrelevant, because the real reason he hasn't performed of late is due to his bad injury issues. But how does that imply that he wasn't just a good receiver when his numbers were good? What are the criteria here?
Is Torrey Smith a product of Joe Flacco? He was taken at the bottom of the 2nd round, almost a 3rd round pick. He wasn't exactly a high draft pick. And yet he is putting up some great numbers. Maybe we can say Joe Flacco has already done what you say great QB's do, he has made a receiver out of Torrey Smith? Who can say? What is the distinction, what are the rules, what makes a receiver a good player vs a product of the QB?
It all seems so arbitrary.
What about a guy like Travis Taylor? He was an early draft pick (10th overall). He didn't do much in his career. He averaged about 40 yards per game with us over 5 seasons. For comparison, Torrey Smith has been averaging over 50 yards per game with us over his first 2 seasons. Taylor's best season for us was 869 yards and 6 TDs. Besides that, he never had more than 3 touchdowns in a season, and never had more than 632 yards. Torrey Smith already has 2 800+ yard seasons and two 7+ TD seasons. In 2 years, he has 2 better seasons than Taylor's best.
OK... The QB's Taylor had throwing to him were: Tony Banks, Trent Dilfer, Elvis Grbac, Chris Redman, Jeff Blake, Anthony Wright, and Kyle Boller.
OK, so with that cast of characters throwing the ball, he didn't accomplish much. Are you going to blame him, or the fact that he didn't have a good quarterback to get the ball to him?
But what if he was drafted into Green Bay and had Brett Favre throwing him the ball?
Let's say he had the same numbers as he did in Baltimore... Is he just a bust? Or did Favre not do his job to get the ball to him?
Let's say he had much better numbers and was very successful with Favre as his QB. Not knowing that he would be a failure with Baltimore's QBs throwing the ball to him, do you consider him just a great receiver that Green Bay drafted high to get a weapon for Favre... or is he a product of Favre? A high draft pick that pans out and plays well... with a great QB throwing the ball to him... product of the QB, or just a good player?
Do you see what I'm getting at?
The only FACTS are that a player either does his job, gets open, and catches the ball when it comes to him... or he doesn't.
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07-31-2013, 10:00 AM #46Veteran Poster
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Re: The Foundation of the Passing Offense is still Intact.
Couple of things on the Giants. The Giants offense struggled in 2006 despite have a ton a of talent. The Giants fired Hufnagel and promoted Gilbride. That coincided with Eli Manning taking off. So is it Gilbride who has made the receivers successful or Manning? Quarterbacks cannot get wide receivers open. Very few receivers have god given ability that allows them to get separation consistently. It is really about what the OC does to get the receiver open. GB and the Giants have some of the best OCs in the business. In Cam's offense the wrs had to be able to get open on their own. There was no creativity. Caldwell is going to have to put the young guys in a position to succeed. It does not mean that they will be pro bowl players but they are not being asked to replace pro bowlers.
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07-31-2013, 10:19 AM #47Pro Bowl Poster
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07-31-2013, 11:35 AM #48
Re: The Foundation of the Passing Offense is still Intact.
Joe has drawn a lot of comparisons to Eli. It's a fair comparison since both teams have balanced offenses. Excluding Manning's first year (since it was only 7 starts and he went 1-6), Manning's passing totals for years 2 through 6 was 17,401 to Joe's years 1 through 5 at 17,633. Comparable numbers with the edge going to Joe, especially considering Manning's rookie year was excluded. During the post season Joe has no equal.
Ryan has the weapons in the passing game, but he also has the 29th rushing offense last year. The Falcons designed a throwing offense, and in the salary cap era have spent over 60% of that on offense, the result is a porous defense. The Ravens have always spent more on defense and as a result are a much better defense. Ryan is going to throw a lot because he has to, they need to outscore the other offense. The Ravens are going to run, and that will open up things in the passing game since defenses will be forced to stack the box to slow the running game. The game has evolved and defenses concentrate on defending the pass. A powerful running game can exploit this trend. It's silly to compare passing totals between the 2 of them with such different team philosophies. I'm not predicting Atlanta is going to the Super Bowl, but if they make it this year they will have to play in frigid New York in February. Not ideal for a team built to play in a dome.
You have to dismiss just how good Joe is and has been early in his career to see the sky falling. He's never had elite talent at WR yet has been the most successful post season quarterback in the league during his first 5 years. The training wheels were removed in the playoffs last year and we got a glimpse of things to come. To me the key is giving him time in the pocket and an effective running game that keeps the opposing defense guessing, both of which appears to be present now.
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