It's easy to see why Cleveland hates us.

**lowrider** · 07-26-2013, 07:20 PM

I just heard that there is a tornado warning in Cleveland. They are urging every body to go to browns stadium because there is NO chance of a touchdown there!

**lobachevsky** · 07-26-2013, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by bacchys

I don't much care for the above.

Well, I don't much care about your not much caring for it, so I guess we're even.

There isn't a single thing you said there which couldn't be (and largely has been) applied to Baltimore fans in the '90s. The politicians crapped on the Colts well before Irsay came along. They were second-fiddle in Memorial Stadium to the Orioles. They couldn't get a stadium deal worked out for a new stadium. Heck, they couldn't even get an equal distribution of Memorial Stadium concession revenues at Colts games.

Read for comprehension, please. Where did I draw a parallel between the Colts' move and the Browns'?

I happen to agree with you that the Baltimore pols did a piss-poor job of addressing the Colts' legitimate grievances; IMHO Schaefer's blustering about imminent ;) domain pushed Drunk Bob past the point of no return. But that only makes the actions of the Cleveland pols more incomprehensible: They had an object lesson in what could happen when you screwed around with an NFL owner just a few hundred miles and a dozen years away--& they thought it couldn't possibly happen to them....

Irsay did have legitimate grievances. That doesn't excuse him being a drunken bastard who lied his ass off throughout the moving process or for taking the name, colours, and history with him, but he did have legitimate gripes with the state and city governments. The fans weren't the cause of the gripes. They were just the victims.

I don't claim there was a groundswell of Art-must-go sentiment that the pols were tapping into. But I also don't think the Cleveland city government takes the hard line unless they have at least tacit support from the electorate. Including a lot of Browns fans, who I would suspect were frustrated by the team's inability to get over the hump & looking for someone to blame--& Modell was convenient.

I guess the other thing was the pols figured Art had nowhere else to go--the one real sweetheart deal out there (Baltimore) would be blocked by the "tag team" of Tagliabue & J. K. Crook of the Deadskins. Looks like they woefully overestimated the clout of a commish vs the owners where the fate of one of their own--one who had done a lot to increase the value of their franchises even if he wasn't running his own very well--hung in the balance.

Finally they really did not reckon with the fact that Art Modell was first & foremost a football fan. One reason he moved to Baltimore surely was to build up the value of the franchise so he'd have something substantial to leave to his heirs. But another probably more important reason was that the man wanted to win a Super Bowl--& the only way he was going to get the resources to do that was to move.

**bacchys** · 07-27-2013, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by lobachevsky

Well, I don't much care about your not much caring for it, so I guess we're even.

I'm guessing you've never seen that way of expressing the sentiment of disagreement.

Read for comprehension, please. Where did I draw a parallel between the Colts' move and the Browns'?

Take your own advice. I drew the parallel. I didn't suggest you did. If you're not going to blame Colts' fans for The Move, it's a double-standard to blame Browns fans. They weren't in any better position to prevent it than Colts fans.

I agree with you about the Cleveland pols. They had two object lessons: Al Davis and Drunken Bastard. The legal wranglings in both of those instances made it clear that no city could compel an NFL franchise to stay put, and the NFL wasn't in any better position.

**BcRaven** · 07-27-2013, 05:02 PM

The Browns oldest fan, who will be celebrating his 106th birthday on October 25th, was asked about his favorite team's playoff chances. He replied, "Playoffs ? What does that word mean?"
... Bc

**downside52** · 07-28-2013, 06:41 AM

One thing I give Brown's fans credit for is resiliency. With as bad as the team has been and the economics of the city of Cleveland that means something. Despite the bad economy there and the teams losing streak you still dont hear them mentioned for a move to LA or whatever, like the Jaguars.

**Beau Petard** · 07-28-2013, 12:22 PM

BC-
I had to laugh reading your post. It reminded me of a youtube video of that Browns oldest fan...

**RavenMadness** · 07-29-2013, 03:50 PM

Speaking of Cleveland ..... Kruger thoughts on browns defense being as good as ravens!

http://www.csnbaltimore.com/blog/rav...se-good-ravens

**Strange Bru** · 07-29-2013, 04:15 PM

So is Kruger just playing nice with his new team, or could he be serious?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...re-with-ravens

Like the article says, " The Ravens' defense was mediocre overall last season and was hammered by injuries." So do you think it's the beat up Ravens that the Browns are on par with, or a healthier Ravens D squad?

**The Excellector** · 07-29-2013, 06:18 PM

Anybody who thinks the Browns defense is going to be on par with a healthy traditional Ravens defense, started drinking rather early today.

**lovefootball** · 07-29-2013, 08:42 PM

Kruger had to say that, it was what the fans needed to hear. If weeden keeps turning over the ball, the Cleveland defense will get plenty of opportunities to show what they can do. With that in mind, kruger will earn his money this year.

**saintmatthew** · 07-29-2013, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

Anybody who thinks the Browns defense is going to be on par with a healthy traditional Ravens defense, started drinking rather early today.

Lot of good talent on that D, and a good D Coordinator too. They're short on good corners but they're pass rush may be good enough this year to compensate. Their main problem will be whether or not their O can keep them off the field for a half a game or more.

**The Excellector** · 07-30-2013, 05:54 AM

If Haden is healthy, he can more than hold his own. Here's their real issue, and it has been for a few years now. The dirty little secret about their defense is that you can run on it. Kruger won't change that. Plus, neither of their pass rushers are as good as either of ours.

They will be a top 10 defense, but on par with traditional Ravens defenses? I doubt it.