Jaws' QB Rankings on ESPN

**callahan09** · 07-11-2013, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

You keep saying this and I'm scratching my head as to why.

Altitude makes air less dense. As does cold temperatures. The more altitude and cold, the thinner the air, thus less friction.

Coors Field is a hitters dream for this very same reason.

As for "no QB is supposed to be able to throw under these conditions", Elway did a pretty good job it all those years. As did Favre.

Half right. Altitude makes air less dense, cold makes air more dense. The negative temperature makes it hard to throw the ball that far for many reasons: cold hands/fingers, muscle stiffness, denser air... The altitude means that throw was easier than if it were the same temperature in Baltimore, for instance. But overall with the temperature as low as it was, and being 59 minutes into the game with all the fatigue that comes along with that, despite the high altitude it was definitely a very difficult throw.

**Stealthbirds80** · 07-11-2013, 10:22 PM

IMO it was a great play, but not so much a miracle. Consider this from Moore's perspective. A dark brown football thrown in such an arc that came down relatively vertical to the field like a punt. I think even Ed Reed misplays that ball. We aren't talking about that ball being thrown towards a ceiling of a dome with lights and a brightly colored ceiling, but the sky was pitch black and Flacco probably threw it partially out of the reach of the strongest beams of the lights (which are angled downward) and the ball went invisible for just a brief instance to be misjudged.

It was the longest nine route that most safeties will ever see, because in Moore's case, no QB who has been with the Broncos since his arrival could put a ball out like that. Tebow, Manning, nobody...

**Stealthbirds80** · 07-11-2013, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by MarkS

Cold temperatures make the air MORE dense, not less. Don't know if it's enough to negate the effect of altitude in this case though.

Also, sub-zero temps make the ball a lot harder, they make the surface more "slick", they make your fingers numb, etc. Basically, a lot of things that are counter-productive to getting a good grip and throwing a football a long-ass way.

So I think his point was: Almost no QB in the NFL would have been able to hoist that ball 60 yards in the air under those adverse conditions while on the run. Moore wasn't expecting him to be able to do that, because almost no one save Flacco, Rodgers, or maybe Cutler could have.

Still not sure I buy this argument though: Seeing as how he WAS playing against Flacco and not a lesser-armed QB, he should have known. Therefore it's still his responsibility.

On top of this IIRC, Flacco threw that ball gloveless. It may not seem that special now (and its really special), but we are going to tell our grandchildren about that play. I think that play is a all time classic NFL films style for 50 years from now.

**callahan09** · 07-11-2013, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by Stealthbirds80

On top of this IIRC, Flacco threw that ball gloveless. It may not seem that special now (and its really special), but we are going to tell our grandchildren about that play. I think that play is a all time classic NFL films style for 50 years from now.

Without a doubt. It was the single greatest, most exciting, most unexpected play I have ever seen in a football game.

**lobachevsky** · 07-11-2013, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by Stealthbirds80

IMO A dark brown football thrown in such an arc that came down relatively vertical to the field like a punt.

Excellent & exceedingly important point. We think of this sort of pass like a shot from a cannon, following a smooth parabola, but what actually happens is that air resistance is slowing the ball's horizontal velocity while gravity is yanking down on the trajectory. For an artillery shell the high speed limits flight time & the high density limits the rate of loss of kinetic energy. Not so an air-filled pigskin. By the time it starts down the x-vector is so small that the ball acts almost like it's been dropped from a few storeys up. Meanwhile Moore reacted like most DBs would, trying to get between the receiver & the QB to break up (or intercept) the pass before it ever gets there--but the steepness of the ball's descent meant that the only way to defend it was to be in Jacoby's hip pocket. It's hard to throttle down your instincts, rethink the situation & reposition yourself in what, 3.5 seconds from the release to the catch...

**Maelstrom** · 07-11-2013, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by Stealthbirds80

...I think even Ed Reed misplays that ball.

I think Ed Reed would have clocked Jacoby instead of playing the ball - bad shoulder and all.

**ravensnhokies** · 07-12-2013, 12:58 AM

One of the rare things I do like on ESPN is that Sport Science bit. I wish they would devote a segment on the throw and the physics that were involved. I don't thing I've ever seen a bomb thrown with that high of a trajectory. Jones smartly caught it like a punt.

**DonNMass** · 07-12-2013, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by lobachevsky

Excellent & exceedingly important point. We think of this sort of pass like a shot from a cannon, following a smooth parabola, but what actually happens is that air resistance is slowing the ball's horizontal velocity while gravity is yanking down on the trajectory. For an artillery shell the high speed limits flight time & the high density limits the rate of loss of kinetic energy. Not so an air-filled pigskin. By the time it starts down the x-vector is so small that the ball acts almost like it's been dropped from a few storeys up. Meanwhile Moore reacted like most DBs would, trying to get between the receiver & the QB to break up (or intercept) the pass before it ever gets there--but the steepness of the ball's descent meant that the only way to defend it was to be in Jacoby's hip pocket. It's hard to throttle down your instincts, rethink the situation & reposition yourself in what, 3.5 seconds from the release to the catch...

Not to be overlooked in this discussion of mechanics, weather, x' and o's and even physics, is the context. Same play tied at the half is a just a great play in an of itself, but in the context of sub-zero weather, game all but over facing elimination on a long field in a frozen hostile environment it was a play that was as psychological as strategic. That was as big a play as ever been. Joe had the will to win, and thanks to Jacoby; Lee Evens makes me really appreciate Jacoby because we know what it's like to watch game winning drops and what could've been.

**HoustonRaven** · 07-12-2013, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by ravensnhokies

One of the rare things I do like on ESPN is that Sport Science bit. I wish they would devote a segment on the throw and the physics that were involved. I don't thing I've ever seen a bomb thrown with that high of a trajectory. Jones smartly caught it like a punt.

Agreed. Time may have passed on this but that would have been a great segment for them.

**HoustonRaven** · 07-12-2013, 08:57 AM

Anywho ... Back on topic ....

Russell Wilson comes in at 12. Thoughts?

**wickedsolo** · 07-12-2013, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Anywho ... Back on topic ....

Russell Wilson comes in at 12. Thoughts?

I think he is definitely deserving of that ranking. Even though he is a rookie, he was damn good last year and didn't really make any mistakes. Smart player.