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  1. #301

    C'mon Jaws you've got to pick Flacco over Ryan







  2. #302

    Re: Jaws' QB Rankings on ESPN

    IMO, I think Peyton and Tom could had made a MHM type throw in their primes, but I don't think they could have ever put that much trajectory that Joe put on it in those elements. Peyton had a slightly stronger arm than Tom, but they were never in Elway/Marino camp (more in the Montana camp... pinpoint accuracy). Joe's arm is debatably in the Top 10 all time.

    I'd probably put Drew ahead of Matty Ice and Joe right now b/c I think Drew's experience in reading defenses gives him a slight edge. Sure Drew takes too many chances and as a result throws way too many INTs. But still, down by 4 with 2 minutes and 90yds to go, I think Brees will succeed more times than Joe. Maybe I'm wrong but that's how I truly feel.




  3. #303
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    Re: Jaws' QB Rankings on ESPN

    I think the playoff run showed how well Flacco can read defenses and audible to the right play. I give much more credit to him for changing the play than Caldwell for 'calling' the right play. What I think Caldwell did was get the right formations and options to Joe.

    Post snap, there aren't much better than Brady and Peyton in terms of reading the D but Joe is right there IMO
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  4. #304

    Re: Jaws' QB Rankings on ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by somedumbguy View Post
    I guess all bets are really off now. I am not surprised that he is ahead of Ryan but I am a bit surprised about Brees. The thing is, of the 3 other QB's on the list, Joe outplayed both of them last year in the playoffs in their own houses. It would be an interesting arguement to make, even if I don't really believe it. heck, at this point just put Joe #1 and be done with it. At the end of the day we all know rankings are pretty meaningless.

    It is possible Jaws thinks Cam was really holding Joe back and that he is poised for a monster year.
    It is also possible that Jaws is taking a slightly controversial stance to generate buzz on the internets.
    I think everone realizes that. Just about everyone saw the problem with the Ravens over the last 5 years, except the Raven's braintrust. Once they finally saw it and kicked his ass to the curb, , poof! we win the super bowl.




  5. #305
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    Re: Jaws' QB Rankings on ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Actually, it is.

    Read his criteria. He's ranking a QB's "entire body of work" over multiple seasons.
    ...which is not the same thing as a Lifetime Achievement Award. QB's like Ryan and Flacco do not suddenly in one season get ranked over QBs like Brees and Big Ben unless extra weight is applied to the just completed season. Rogers does not get ranked over Manning or Brady based on his career-yet. Rogers is a better QB now.




  6. #306

    Re: Jaws' QB Rankings on ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by steelerhater View Post
    I think everone realizes that. Just about everyone saw the problem with the Ravens over the last 5 years, except the Raven's braintrust. Once they finally saw it and kicked his ass to the curb, , poof! we win the super bowl.
    Read any non-ravens forum.

    Nobody thinks this.

    Everyone still thinks it was anquan boldin and dennis pitta who made him look so good. Everyone thinks it was Ray Lewis' magic. Nobody thinks it was Joe.




  7. #307
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    Re: Jaws' QB Rankings on ESPN

    To further this tangent, it is interesting how LSU fans and reporters think that the Ravens' mediocre offense had little to do with Cam.




  8. #308
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    Re: Jaws' QB Rankings on ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabrosin View Post
    Forget about where Flacco is for a moment. We just won the Super Bowl, he was the MVP, any overreaction to these two facts can be understood.

    How does Matt Ryan get ranked above Drew Brees?

    What has Matt Ryan done, besides go to the playoffs in 2012 (in a season where Brees and the Saints were hamstrung by circumstances way outside his control), that could possibly rate him higher than Brees? Brees won the Super Bowl just a few years ago, over Peyton Manning, and has set all sorts of NFL passing records very recently.

    What?
    Check out these stats for Ryan vs Flacco:

    Regular Season (career):
    Ryan - 2637 attempts, 127:60 TD:INT ratio for a 4.8% TD rate and a 2.3% INT rate
    Flacco - 2489 attempts, 102:56 TD:INT ratio for a 4.1% TD rate and a 2.2% INT rate

    Post Season (career):
    Ryan - 187 attempts, 9:7 TD:INT ratio for a 4.8% TD rate and a 3.7% INT rate
    Flacco - 373 attempts, 19:8 TD:INT ratio for a 5.1% TD rate and a 2.1% INT rate

    Which QB apparently elevates his game in the playoffs?

    Ryan - Regular Season 4.8% TD rate:2.3% INT rate vs. Post Season 4.8% TD rate:3.7% INT rate
    Flacco - Regular Season 4.1% TD rate:2.2% INT rate vs. Post Season 5.1% TD rate:2.1% INT rate

    In the playoffs, Ryan's INT rate increases by 1.4% over his regular average and his TD rate stays the same (4.8%).
    In the playoffs, Flacco's INT rate decreases (marginally by 0.1%) but his TD rate jumps a full 1% over his regular average (to 5.1%).

    Up to this point Flacco and Ryan are basically polar opposites in the playoffs.

    I could offer up a theory: that Joe playing tougher defenses (e.g. Pitt/Cincy) in the regular season better prepares him for the playoffs than Ryan playing horrible defenses like NO/TB in the regular season.

    The numbers show that when the playoffs hit...Ryan's INT rate increases, whereas Joe's TD % increases.
    Last edited by bt12483; 07-18-2013 at 02:58 PM.




  9. #309

    Re: Jaws' QB Rankings on ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    Check out these stats for Ryan vs Flacco:

    Regular Season (career):
    Ryan - 2637 attempts, 127:60 TD:INT ratio for a 4.8% TD rate and a 2.3% INT rate
    Flacco - 2489 attempts, 102:56 TD:INT ratio for a 4.1% TD rate and a 2.2% INT rate

    Post Season (career):
    Ryan - 187 attempts, 9:7 TD:INT ratio for a 4.8% TD rate and a 3.7% INT rate
    Flacco - 373 attempts, 19:8 TD:INT ratio for a 5.1% TD rate and a 2.1% INT rate

    Which QB apparently elevates his game in the playoffs?

    Ryan - Regular Season 4.8% TD rate:2.3% INT rate vs. Post Season 4.8% TD rate:3.7% INT rate
    Flacco - Regular Season 4.1% TD rate:2.2% INT rate vs. Post Season 5.1% TD rate:2.1% INT rate

    In the playoffs, Ryan's INT rate increases by 1.4% and his TD rate stays the same (4.8%).
    In the playoffs, Flacco's INT rate decreases (marginally by 0.1%) but his TD rate jumps a full 1%.

    Up to this point Flacco and Ryan are basically polar opposites in the playoffs.

    I could offer up a theory: that Joe playing tougher defenses (e.g. Pitt/Cincy) in the regular season better prepares him for the playoffs than Ryan playing horrible defenses like NO/TB in the regular season.

    The numbers show that when the playoffs hit...Ryan's INT rate increases, whereas Joe's TD % increases.
    What's even more telling is how Ryan's numbers jump since Julio Jones came along.




  10. #310

    Re: Jaws' QB Rankings on ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    I think the playoff run showed how well Flacco can read defenses and audible to the right play.
    It also showed how well he can move around when he's pressured. If the pocket is collapsing from all directions, there's no place to go, as we've seen for years with Joe ending up sandwiched. But when he has room to maneuver, he's quite good at it.
    I've upped my standards. Up yours.




  11. #311
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    Re: Jaws' QB Rankings on ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by dscola31 View Post
    What's even more telling is how Ryan's numbers jump since Julio Jones came along.
    Ryan is a good QB but I truly feel that the players around him make him look better than he is (as opposed to him making those players better).

    Roddy White and Tony Gonzalez put up 1000 yard seasons before they ever caught passes from Ryan.

    And what QB wouldn't benefit from someone like Julio Jones?




  12. #312
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    Re: Jaws' QB Rankings on ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by HotInHere View Post
    I think his years of football experience told him he was in a safe position because no ball could be thrown over his head.
    I think his years of experience hurt him. I think those years told him "There's no way Flacco goes deep in this situat ... Oh shit!"

    Quote Originally Posted by HotInHere View Post
    Could Brady have gotten it there? Sure. Could he have dropped it in like a punt? Doubt it.
    Not sure I follow.

    If it was as high as you suggest, it gives the defender more time to adjust. Yes, it was a lofty pass, but it wasn't unusually high.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  13. #313
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    Re: Jaws' QB Rankings on ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    And what QB wouldn't benefit from someone like Julio Jones?

    Mark Sanchez?


    Wide receivers as a group are divas. If a QB was not getting the ball where it was supposed to go, the coaches would know and I am pretty sure it would be a media story. As far as I can tell, Ryan has the confidence of his offense much like Flacco has the confidence of his. When the offense starts doubting the QB and becoming public about it, then you can really tell that a QB is being carried by his team. I think its a fallacy to to infer that just because Ryan has good WR's, he is not good himself. You have to be talented. A great example is Matt Leinhart a few years back in Arizona. Even with Boldin and Fitzgerald he could not win games and he got replaced by Kurt Warner. With all the talent the Falcons have right now, if Ryan was just average I think they would chose not to pay him and go get somebody else.




  14. #314

    Re: Jaws' QB Rankings on ESPN

    Lol Falcon fans are pissed

    http://boards.atlantafalcons.com/top.../page__st__120


    Flacco is nowhere near the QB Roethlisberger is, either.

    Flacco is essentially Andy Dalton...

    Flacco was 17th in DYAR last year. He was 17th in DVOA


    BUT OMG he played guud for 4 gamez!!!!
    Some are sensible

    It's not a list of the QB's based on career accomplishments. And Flacco had 4 great postseason games and I don't even like Flacco but you can't deny that he just had one of the best playoff seasons any QB has ever had in NFL history. That holds a lot of weight.

    And it's not a big deal either.




  15. #315
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    Re: Jaws' QB Rankings on ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by ursula View Post
    ...which is not the same thing as a Lifetime Achievement Award. QB's like Ryan and Flacco do not suddenly in one season get ranked over QBs like Brees and Big Ben unless extra weight is applied to the just completed season. Rogers does not get ranked over Manning or Brady based on his career-yet. Rogers is a better QB now.
    It's not like Brees's great accomplishments are ancient history. It was what, two years ago he set the all-time passing yardage record? And while Jimmy Graham is a superior talent at TE, I don't think you can argue that Brees's receivers are head and shoulders better than Ryan's... White/Jones/Gonzo make probably the best receiving trio in the game, I'd take them over Graham/Colston/Lance Moore or whoever else you add in there.

    If Ryan was holding a Lombardi, sure. But he won ONE playoff game, after failing several times. Brees should still be ranked higher than him, and higher than Flacco.




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