Jaws' QB Rankings on ESPN

**PurpleApocalypse37** · 07-22-2013, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver

I like Rodgers. I think he's slightly overrated among the media.

I can't stand Brady. Can't stand his ass. No way he's overrated though.

Really? Hmm. Because Tom Brady is constantly talked about as if he's a modern day Joe Montana. Lets compare the two:

Joe Montana: 23 games, 6 with sub-80 QBR
Brady: 24 games, 10 with sub-80s QBR.

Joe Montana: 23 games, 12 with 95+ QBR.
Tom Brady: 24 games, 8 with 95+ QBR.

Joe Montana: 95 playoff QBR
Tom Brady: 87 playoff QBR

For fun, let's compare Flacco and Brady.

Brady: 24 games, 10 with sub-80 QBR.
Flacco: 13 games, 5 with sub-80 QBR.

Brady: 24 games, 8 with 95+ QBR.
Flacco: 13 games, 7 with 95+ QBR.

Hmm. So for someone often compared to Montana, Brady hasn't performed anywhere damn close to Montana-like. Overrated.

Flacco is on his way to blowing Brady out of the water. He already has, really. And that's including a terrible, outlier first two seasons (particularly 2009 when he was playing injured).

And I don't care about the regular season stats. Maybe i'd be more impressed if there weren't 2 or 3 other QBs with similarly outlandish stats each year. It has a lot to do with offensive philosophy.

ADDRESS THIS NEXT PARAGRAPH SEPERATELY, it's based on theory rather than fact... So treat accordingly. Don't lump it in with what I've said before.

And Peyton Manning, while not very impressive in playoffs either, has had 8 straight 80+ QBR games. And he played amazing in the 2003 and 2004 seasons until he hit a brick wall in the cheating Patriots that got away with massive illegal contact and defensive holding all day long. If those two games were played in uncorrupt conditions, I have no doubt Manning wins both those superbowls.

**BigPlayReceiver** · 07-22-2013, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by PurpleApocalypse37

Really? Hmm. Because Tom Brady is constantly talked about as if he's a modern day Joe Montana. Lets compare the two:

Joe Montana: 23 games, 6 with sub-80 QBR
Brady: 24 games, 10 with sub-80s QBR.

Joe Montana: 23 games, 12 with 95+ QBR.
Tom Brady: 24 games, 8 with 95+ QBR.

Joe Montana: 95 playoff QBR
Tom Brady: 87 playoff QBR

Different...game plans, game situations, defenses, clock management philosophies, offensive weaponry, etc. Your singular statistical comparison of the QB position across eras is more fitting of sports bar banter.
Joe Montana may be the best ever. The team he had around him and the offensive system have a lot to do with that. It makes sense that Brady or anyone else with a comparative sample size would come up short. If a handful of media types want to put Brady next to Montana then that's on them. Nothing that I've read or heard over the years suggest that most of the industry thinks so. It seems to me that you're arguing a position that hasn't really been widely claimed.

For fun, let's compare Flacco and Brady.

Brady: 24 games, 10 with sub-80 QBR.
Flacco: 13 games, 5 with sub-80 QBR.

Cool. That's pretty equal (42% vs. 38%), but again, QBR is not the end-all?

Brady: 24 games, 8 with 95+ QBR.
Flacco: 13 games, 7 with 95+ QBR.

Advantage Joe, big time...with 4 of his 7 coming in the 2012 season. This makes all of us fans warm-and-fuzzy, but still, it's one stat. If Joe goes on and blows this playoff stat and others out of the water, yet finishes his Ravens career with only one ring, how would that rate? And would he ever see Canton other than as a visitor with such pedestrian regular season stats? Isn't it Canton that what you're really talking about here if Montana, Brady, PO wins and PO QBR are mentioned in the same post?

**Mista T** · 07-22-2013, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

I'd would have had my top three as ...

3. Manning
2. Brady
1. Rodgers

Manning is too inconsistent in the playoffs to be placed ahead of Brady IMO.

3. Brees
1b. Flacco
1a. Rodgers

Maning & Brady are both declining faster than the media would admit.

**RavensNTerps** · 07-22-2013, 09:56 AM

Brady isn't overrated but there's also no chance he's a better overall QB than Peyton Manning who is the best to ever play in terms of overall package and ability. No one gets the game better than Peyton.

**BigPlayReceiver** · 07-22-2013, 10:15 AM

Dear God. I feel so dirty. Defending Tom Brady and isht... *smh*

**somedumbguy** · 07-22-2013, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by RavensNTerps

Brady isn't overrated but there's also no chance he's a better overall QB than Peyton Manning who is the best to ever play in terms of overall package and ability. No one gets the game better than Peyton.

In the regular season you are right. In the playoff's Brady has Manning beat hands down. The arguement we have now with Falcons Fans over Flacco/Ryan has been played out for the last 12 years exactly the same with Brady and Manning.

**PurpleApocalypse37** · 07-22-2013, 12:45 PM

I don't know about you bigplayreceiver, but I ALWAYS hear people describe Brady as "arguably the greatest quarterback of all-time." When you say that about someone with so-so playoff performances, you're overrating the hell out of them.

And no, you can't just blow off the massive advantage Montana has over Brady with a laundry list of "Different...game plans, game situations, defenses, clock management philosophies, offensive weaponry, etc. Your singular statistical comparison of the QB position across eras is more fitting of sports bar banter"... Also? Then why don't you ALSO apply that to Flacco's seemingly "average" regular season stats? And last I checked, it's common knowledge that effective passing was significantly HARDWR back then. By pointing out the different eras you're just further pointing out how inferior Brady is to Montana.

And I PROMISE you that if Flacco continues having a 9-1 TD/INT ratio in the playoffs, he will not only be in the hall of fame, but be the unquestionable greatest quarterback in NFL history... Even if he somehow never won another Super Bowl. Though considering he's had a 95+ QBR in 7 if his last 8 playoff games, and has had multiple touchdowns in 6 straight playoff games, then obviously winning another Super Bowl isn't something we'll have to worry about. You know why? Because we root for a team with a quarterback substantially more clutch than Brady.

Oh, by the way, Flacco's REGULAR SEASON quarterback rating through his first five seasons? 86.3

Brady's REGULAR SEASON quarterback rating through his first five seasons starting?
86. 57

Yeah, considering Brady got to sit on the bench and learn for an entire year while Flacco went straight into the frying pan....

Joe Flacco, through five years, is a better regular season quarterback than Brady was at this point. Hell, Brady threw the ball 600 damn times in 2002 and didn't even reach 4,000 yards. And Joe Flacco has, three years running, been personally playing at a level in the playoffs that Brady has yet to reach.

**PurpleApocalypse37** · 07-22-2013, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by somedumbguy

In the regular season you are right. In the playoff's Brady has Manning beat hands down. The arguement we have now with Falcons Fans over Flacco/Ryan has been played out for the last 12 years exactly the same with Brady and Manning.

Sure. And in the playoffs, Flacco has Brady beat hands down. Hmmm.

Oh, and before the whole "three superbowls blah blah!"...

Flacco's TD/INT in last three years: 18-2

Brady's TD/INT in three Super Bowl years: 11-3

Not to mention that includes Flacco's two separate game-winning touchdowns being dropped, while Brady benefitted from his game-losing fumble being disregarded.

So if anyone wants to argue that Brady has been better in the playoffs than Flacco, despite not playing even half as well as Flacco, better also tell me about how Jamal Lewis is better than Barry Sanders.

**PurpleApocalypse37** · 07-22-2013, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by somedumbguy

In the regular season you are right. In the playoff's Brady has Manning beat hands down. The arguement we have now with Falcons Fans over Flacco/Ryan has been played out for the last 12 years exactly the same with Brady and Manning.

Sure. And in the playoffs, Flacco has Brady beat hands down. Hmmm.

Oh, and before the whole "three superbowls blah blah!"...

Flacco's TD/INT in last three years: 18-2

Brady's TD/INT in three Super Bowl years: 11-3

Not to mention that includes Flacco's two separate game-winning touchdowns being dropped, while Brady benefitted from his game-losing fumble being disregarded.

So if anyone wants to argue that Brady has been better in the playoffs than Flacco, despite not playing even half as well as Flacco, better also tell me about how Jamal Lewis is better than Barry Sanders.

**somedumbguy** · 07-22-2013, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by PurpleApocalypse37

Sure. And in the playoffs, Flacco has Brady beat hands down. Hmmm.

Oh, and before the whole "three superbowls blah blah!"...

Flacco's TD/INT in last three years: 18-2

Brady's TD/INT in three Super Bowl years: 11-3

Not to mention that includes Flacco's two separate game-winning touchdowns being dropped, while Brady benefitted from his game-losing fumble being disregarded.

So if anyone wants to argue that Brady has been better in the playoffs than Flacco, despite not playing even half as well as Flacco, better also tell me about how Jamal Lewis is better than Barry Sanders.

I agree with a lot of what you said. But fair or not, you get points if your team wins the game. 3 time Superbowl Champ sounds better than 1 time Superbowl Champ and he would have had 2 but for a dropped pass.

I hope Flacco wins 2 more. It would make my life up here in Boston a whole lot more fun.

**wickedsolo** · 07-22-2013, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by somedumbguy

I agree with a lot of what you said. But fair or not, you get points if your team wins the game. 3 time Superbowl Champ sounds better than 1 time Superbowl Champ and he would have had 2 but for a dropped pass.

I hope Flacco wins 2 more. It would make my life up here in Boston a whole lot more fun.

You should buy an Aaron Hernandez jersey.

**HoustonRaven** · 07-22-2013, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by PurpleApocalypse37

Sure. And in the playoffs, Flacco has Brady beat hands down. Hmmm.

Oh, and before the whole "three superbowls blah blah!"...

Flacco's TD/INT in last three years: 18-2

Brady's TD/INT in three Super Bowl years: 11-3

Not to mention that includes Flacco's two separate game-winning touchdowns being dropped, while Brady benefitted from his game-losing fumble being disregarded.

So if anyone wants to argue that Brady has been better in the playoffs than Flacco, despite not playing even half as well as Flacco, better also tell me about how Jamal Lewis is better than Barry Sanders.

You're moving the goal posts.

Everyone here agrees that Flacco has had a better five years in the post season.

Your original, debated point was that Brady was overrated.

None of what you posted here backs that claim up.