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Thread: Edward Snowden

  1. #25
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    Re: Edward Snowden



    Quote Originally Posted by Dade View Post
    The constitutional right to privacy is one that is very much debated. Strict constitutionists maintain that the constitution never explically states a right to privacy. It's along the same line of thought with gun rights. The constitution grants every citizen the right to bear arms. So any law restricting that right is unconstitutional. Yet the SCOTUS has made several rulings that infer the right to privacy, without it being stated in the constitution.
    I don't think that's a good comparison but I get what you're saying I think.

    Gun rights are written in the Constitution. Privacy is not. So the approach to the two concepts is 100% different.

    The gun debate is all about where the restriction begins, if any. The concept of privacy is written in via case law and isn't mentioned once in the Constitution but for the 4th Amendment.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  2. #26
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    Re: Edward Snowden

    Quote Originally Posted by Dade View Post
    The constitutional right to privacy is one that is very much debated. Strict constitutionists maintain that the constitution never explically states a right to privacy. It's along the same line of thought with gun rights. The constitution grants every citizen the right to bear arms. So any law restricting that right is unconstitutional. Yet the SCOTUS has made several rulings that infer the right to privacy, without it being stated in the constitution.

    IMO we've never had privacy in this country. Just the illusion of it. Remember all the wiretappings and searches conducted by Hoover. The advancement of technology has made it harder to maintain that illusion.
    How do you find 3 black grains of sand on a beach. You sift the sand. Not the best metaphor, I know.
    I don't disagree, but like I said "should"
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  3. #27

    Re: Edward Snowden

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    The phone book isn't printed by the Government. You voluntarily get a phone line put in your house, provided by a private company, and there are ways to opt out of a phone listing.
    was using it as an analogy, not a direct comparison. If it was a system set up by the government that you could elect out of, it would be a similar situation. I was asking if thats what NC was describing.
    -JAB




  4. #28
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    Re: Edward Snowden

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    was using it as an analogy, not a direct comparison. If it was a system set up by the government that you could elect out of, it would be a similar situation. I was asking if thats what NC was describing.
    I was describing them in the context of rights. But were you asking would I be okay if the system of haivng your info scanned was setup like a phone book system?
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  5. #29

    Re: Edward Snowden

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    I was describing them in the context of rights. But were you asking would I be okay if the system of haivng your info scanned was setup like a phone book system?
    i guess i was trying to find a system that works for both that i thought you were describing. I missed something i guess.
    -JAB




  6. #30
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    Re: Edward Snowden

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    i guess i was trying to find a system that works for both that i thought you were describing. I missed something i guess.
    It's all good. I was stating that just because you and I wouldn't care if our info was scanned doesn't/shouldn't mean Greg should be forced to be okay with it because we out number him 2 to 1.

    As far as a system like that, tough to say if that would work or if everyone would just hold up there hand and say no thanks.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  7. #31
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    Re: Edward Snowden

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    The gun debate is all about where the restriction begins, if any. The concept of privacy is written in via case law and isn't mentioned once in the Constitution but for the 4th Amendment.
    That's kinda the point I was trying to make. Since privacy is only written in by case law, we don't have a constitutional right to it. Regardless, I have no problem with PRISM.
    "I got this." - Justin Tucker




  8. #32
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    Re: Edward Snowden

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    You could put me in that category too. What do I care of somoene somewhere that I'll likely never meet scans some emails to make sure I'm not plotting something.

    However, just because I am okay with it doesn't mean that should allow the Government to do it to Greg who isn't okay with it.

    Which is kinda they way our Goverment was setup. We are a constitutional republic where the indiviual's rights are protected from the majority and not a democracy where the majority rules . So Greg's individual rights to privacy should be protected against what the majority feels is okay.
    That they can't listen to my call is not nearly good enough. Suppose they log me calling two or three different Tea Party phone numbers. Is an intense IRS audit far behind? Please don't tell me I am being paranoid given what is going on right now.




  9. #33
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    Re: Edward Snowden

    Quote Originally Posted by Dade View Post
    The constitutional right to privacy is one that is very much debated. Strict constitutionists maintain that the constitution never explically states a right to privacy. It's along the same line of thought with gun rights. The constitution grants every citizen the right to bear arms. So any law restricting that right is unconstitutional. Yet the SCOTUS has made several rulings that infer the right to privacy, without it being stated in the constitution.

    IMO we've never had privacy in this country. Just the illusion of it. Remember all the wiretappings and searches conducted by Hoover. The advancement of technology has made it harder to maintain that illusion.

    How do you find 3 black grains of sand on a beach. You sift the sand. Not the best metaphor, I know.
    There is a clear provision against unlawful searches and seizures in the Constitution. I don't care how much it has been ignored in the past, I want it returned to its intended status.




  10. #34
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    Re: Edward Snowden

    Quote Originally Posted by Dade View Post
    That's kinda the point I was trying to make. Since privacy is only written in by case law, we don't have a constitutional right to it. Regardless, I have no problem with PRISM.
    I have the right against illegal (unwarranted) search and seizures. Searching my phone records (and internet history) and seizing them is illegal without a search warrant.

    Did I use the word "privacy"?




  11. #35
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    Re: Edward Snowden

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    That they can't listen to my call is not nearly good enough. Suppose they log me calling two or three different Tea Party phone numbers. Is an intense IRS audit far behind? Please don't tell me I am being paranoid given what is going on right now.
    Slightly, yes.

    I've not seen one iota of evidence that suggests common individuals were targeted. The Gubmint, with all it's misgivings, doesn't give two shits about either of us. And there's just as much evidence (like none at all) that the IRS is doing the NSA's bidding.

    I understand the concern and agree with the principles behind it. But now you're talking Alex Jones type stuff. Scandals get discovered. They always do. If individuals were all of a sudden targeted for audit simply based on political affiliation, we'd hear about just like in this case.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  12. #36
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    Re: Edward Snowden

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    That they can't listen to my call is not nearly good enough. Suppose they log me calling two or three different Tea Party phone numbers. Is an intense IRS audit far behind? Please don't tell me I am being paranoid given what is going on right now.
    That was just one example. The standard for that example should apply to all rights to privacy you have.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




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