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Thread: Edward Snowden
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07-06-2013, 11:16 PM #37
Re: Edward Snowden
I have heard about noted conservatives getting audited for the first time in their lives the last few years. Audits that start with IRS agents at your front door. Anecdotal, sure. But still.
That scandals get discovered is not comforting, especially to those who suffer as the targets prior to discovery. Second, only the scandals that get discovered do we know got discovered. How many managed to go under the radar? How many do the media ignore for the Clown in Chief?
Paranoid? Maybe, but I think there is excellent reason to be given this administration and the size/scope of the federal government.
And one more note, maybe I am not big enough fish to fry but some people are and they deserve protection as well. And I know people that have the IRS show up at their house. It is a scary thing. They carry guns. They talk shit. They have way too much power. Even the lower yahoos.
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07-07-2013, 09:08 AM #38Legendary RSR Poster
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Re: Edward Snowden
Well, that's kind of my point. You or I are not *noted*.
Sure, prominent conservatives may have been targeted. There is evidence to suggest such.
But us common folk? I don't see it.
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07-07-2013, 06:13 PM #39
Re: Edward Snowden
And so we need to protect the records of all people to protect the big fish. I don't want my any of my information/activities/connections in the hands of the government unless there is probable cause, and that should be that given our Constitution. And this should extend to every American citizen.
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Re: Edward Snowden
Looks like he is accepting asylum in Venezuela.
Disclaimer: The content posted is of my own opinion.
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07-09-2013, 02:03 PM #41Veteran Poster
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Re: Edward Snowden
Perhaps. But then doesn't this in a way make it worse? Often times, the "un-common" individuals are representatives (elected or not) of the voices and desires of many thousands, if not millions.
Take Martin Luther King, JR, for example. The FBI illegally recorded him having an affair with another woman and then used that information to try and get him to stop his civil rights activities. So not only were his rights (protecting him against warrant-less wiretaps) abused, but the information they gained was used to suppress the rights of millions to petition their government.
One last point, once the government has this information, there is no getting rid of it. You may think you are too small a fish to be spied upon, but their are many, many instances were government employees abused legally obtained information (tax returns, driver's license information, etc.) to just snoop around on their fellow citizens. Sure there are laws already against this sort of activity, but adding x10s, or 1000xs more info - obtained illegally - to the mix, just increases the opportunity that much more. And if you don't think an NSA analyst is looking at the text messages and Internet records of the pretty brunette that lives across the street, I have some land in Florida to sell you.Last edited by JohnBKistler; 07-09-2013 at 02:09 PM.
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07-09-2013, 02:55 PM #42Legendary RSR Poster
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Re: Edward Snowden
Again, I said "common" individual. MLK was no common individual.
And Ill take your land. Just leave the tin foil hat on the couch. ;)
I've read numerous stories where politicians, public figures, etc do indeed have their personal information mined. Michael Steele is the perfect example of this. But show me evidence where Joe Schmo (i.e common individuals) had their data mined or exploited by the Gubmint.
I'm NO fan of the abuses by some in our Government but lets not get carried away with wild speculation and conjecture. It makes people sound like Alex Jones and nothing gets solved. Stick to the facts.
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07-09-2013, 03:47 PM #43Veteran Poster
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Re: Edward Snowden
I understand. My point was that by undermining his rights, you in effect abuse the rights of many (millions) of common individuals.
I've read numerous stories where politicians, public figures, etc do indeed have their personal information mined. Michael Steele is the perfect example of this. But show me evidence where Joe Schmo (i.e common individuals) had their data mined or exploited by the Gubmint.
Here is one with the fed's listening on private conversations between soldiers overseas and their wives/girlfriends: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/exclus...e#.Udxk1PnvtH2
And here's one more... http://blogs.mprnews.org/capitol-vie...r_cites_unaut/
That was after about 30 seconds of Google searching, I am sure there are more examples. The point is, by collecting this info, it greatly increases the opportunity for abuse, and therefore the chances that it will in fact happen. And let's face it, the temptation to pry into your neighbor's private affairs is a common human weakness. By adding internet records, text messages, e-mails, etc., you are just adding to the temptation.
I'm NO fan of the abuses by some in our Government but lets not get carried away with wild speculation and conjecture. It makes people sound like Alex Jones and nothing gets solved. Stick to the facts.Last edited by JohnBKistler; 07-09-2013 at 03:55 PM.
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07-09-2013, 04:36 PM #44Legendary RSR Poster
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Re: Edward Snowden
Ok, if you're going to change the definition of "Government" (to include ever person up to and including your local sheriffs department, dog catcher and meter maid) then yes, there are abuses to speak of against the individual.
Secondly, members of the military do not have a right to privacy. Every member of the armed services signs away their constitutional rights upon enlistment and during their length of service, are governed by the Uniform Code of Military Justice. They are government property and can have any and all of their communications monitored at any time, especially if they are serving in a hostile part of the world.
Your willingness to ignore the context of the thread doesn't prove anything. I think it's rather obvious we're all speaking about abuses of the Federal Government. Links about data security breaches does not prove what we're talking about here.
You started this by saying the NSA spying on the cute girl down the street and once challenged, you provide data security breaches at the local level or on a small scale that have nothing to do with NSA spying on said "cute girl".
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07-09-2013, 05:56 PM #45Veteran Poster
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Re: Edward Snowden
That is the point, or one of the points, once the data is collected (by whoever), it can then be accessible by whoever, and whatever political party is in power. You can limit the abuse by trying to plug all the holes in the dike, or you can respect the Constitution and require that the government agencies have a real and legitimate need to have this data and it is approved by a true judicial oversight.
Secondly, members of the military do not have a right to privacy. Every member of the armed services signs away their constitutional rights upon enlistment and during their length of service, are governed by the Uniform Code of Military Justice. They are government property and can have any and all of their communications monitored at any time, especially if they are serving in a hostile part of the world.
Your willingness to ignore the context of the thread doesn't prove anything. I think it's rather obvious we're all speaking about abuses of the Federal Government. Links about data security breaches does not prove what we're talking about here.
You started this by saying the NSA spying on the cute girl down the street and once challenged, you provide data security breaches at the local level or on a small scale that have nothing to do with NSA spying on said "cute girl".
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