Edward Snowden

**Dade** · 07-02-2013, 04:24 PM

Without getting into the bigger issue of the government sping on us...what are your thoughts on Edward Snowden himself. Is he a whistleblower/hero for bringing this to light? Or is he a traitor that needs to be prosecuted?

**Haloti92** · 07-02-2013, 04:28 PM

Traitor that needs to be prosecuted.

And I don't condone everything that the government was/is doing in terms of data collection and surveillance.

**HoustonRaven** · 07-02-2013, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by Haloti92

Traitor that needs to be prosecuted.

And I don't condone everything that the government was/is doing in terms of data collection and surveillance.

:word

I am no way a fan of Government keeping tabs on their own citizens without a warrant but there's a proper way to blow the whistle on this. And Snowden isn't coming close to doing it the right way.

His actions have put sensative trade craft out in the open and has potentially put operatives in harms way.

All he had to do was go to an American news outlet or liberal-leaning Senator or Congressmen and the same goals would have been accomplished without putting American lives at risk.

The fact that he's running tells me he's a simpleton who only cares about himself. Civil disobedience requires the light of day in open court.

**NCRAVEN** · 07-02-2013, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

:word

I am no way a fan of Government keeping tabs on their own citizens without a warrant but there's a proper way to blow the whistle on this. And Snowden isn't coming close to doing it the right way.

His actions have put sensative trade craft out in the open and has potentially put operatives in harms way.

All he had to do was go to an American news outlet or liberal-leaning Senator or Congressmen and the same goals would have been accomplished without putting American lives at risk.

The fact that he's running tells me he's a simpleton who only cares about himself. Civil disobedience requires the light of day in open court.

Same here.

I was cool with him letting the American people they were being spied on but when he left the country and told other nations what we cold potentiall could be doing to them, that went to far.

**Dade** · 07-02-2013, 05:25 PM

Surprise that we're all in agreement here. Snowden is a punk kid who wanted his 15 minutes. He has no idea what his actions have done. I hope the government finds a way to get him back.

**Greg** · 07-02-2013, 06:05 PM

Snowden: Traitor? I don't know. Criminal? Probably. Hero? No.

But the focus should not be on Snowden, it should be on the incredible corruption of the government being exposed in so many ways. The government is using its power to get information on us and then using that information to damage us if we don't hold the correct political positions. THIS SHOULD BE THE FOCUS!

**wickedsolo** · 07-02-2013, 08:11 PM

All I am going to say is the dude was 29...making over $200k per year....and living in Hawaii. Yea.

**HoustonRaven** · 07-07-2013, 09:08 AM

Well, that's kind of my point. You or I are not *noted*.

Sure, prominent conservatives may have been targeted. There is evidence to suggest such.

But us common folk? I don't see it.

**Greg** · 07-07-2013, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Well, that's kind of my point. You or I are not *noted*.

Sure, prominent conservatives may have been targeted. There is evidence to suggest such.

But us common folk? I don't see it.

And so we need to protect the records of all people to protect the big fish. I don't want my any of my information/activities/connections in the hands of the government unless there is probable cause, and that should be that given our Constitution. And this should extend to every American citizen.

**wickedsolo** · 07-09-2013, 12:51 PM

Looks like he is accepting asylum in Venezuela.

**HoustonRaven** · 07-09-2013, 04:36 PM

Ok, if you're going to change the definition of "Government" (to include ever person up to and including your local sheriffs department, dog catcher and meter maid) then yes, there are abuses to speak of against the individual.

Secondly, members of the military do not have a right to privacy. Every member of the armed services signs away their constitutional rights upon enlistment and during their length of service, are governed by the Uniform Code of Military Justice. They are government property and can have any and all of their communications monitored at any time, especially if they are serving in a hostile part of the world.

Your willingness to ignore the context of the thread doesn't prove anything. I think it's rather obvious we're all speaking about abuses of the Federal Government. Links about data security breaches does not prove what we're talking about here.

You started this by saying the NSA spying on the cute girl down the street and once challenged, you provide data security breaches at the local level or on a small scale that have nothing to do with NSA spying on said "cute girl".

**JohnBKistler** · 07-09-2013, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Ok, if you're going to change the definition of "Government" (to include ever person up to and including your local sheriffs department, dog catcher and meter maid) then yes, there are abuses to speak of against the individual.

That is the point, or one of the points, once the data is collected (by whoever), it can then be accessible by whoever, and whatever political party is in power. You can limit the abuse by trying to plug all the holes in the dike, or you can respect the Constitution and require that the government agencies have a real and legitimate need to have this data and it is approved by a true judicial oversight.

Secondly, members of the military do not have a right to privacy. Every member of the armed services signs away their constitutional rights upon enlistment and during their length of service, are governed by the Uniform Code of Military Justice. They are government property and can have any and all of their communications monitored at any time, especially if they are serving in a hostile part of the world.

Again, you miss the point. Sure, they do not have a right to privacy. Do you think they have a right to have a bunch of people saying, "Hey, listen to how hot this ones getting." It proves that government officials will use the data they have acquired or to which they have access for non-security purposes.

Your willingness to ignore the context of the thread doesn't prove anything. I think it's rather obvious we're all speaking about abuses of the Federal Government. Links about data security breaches does not prove what we're talking about here.

I only replied to something you stated with facts and my interpretation of what those facts may mean. It that not allowed?

You started this by saying the NSA spying on the cute girl down the street and once challenged, you provide data security breaches at the local level or on a small scale that have nothing to do with NSA spying on said "cute girl".

Huh? Once the government has taken your private information - whether legally (as in the driver's license records) or illegally (as in the case of the NSA data mining), it opens up individuals to abuse...whether that is spying on your daughter's e-mail traffic, using it to blackmail political figures, or targeting Greg for audits, it really doesn't matter. And NSA staff have been fired for randomly surfing the data that they have acquired in the past. Your rights to be secure in your possessions (your private information) to to be protected against illegal searches have been violated.