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  1. #25
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    Re: George Zimmerman Trial



    Maybe I am wrong but I don't think the prosecutors even wanna try this case. They seem so uninsterested in it. Also their witnesses suck. All they are doing is asking each person to confirm the evidence they've already have each person confirm before them.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  2. #26
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    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    I haven't been watching it. It's upsetting. I'll tell ya one thing, after the shooting I was
    scared to wear my hood up. I don't know if he's guilty or not unlike in Ray's case but
    it didn't have to happen. Those proponents are right.
    UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU.




  3. #27
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    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Maybe I am wrong but I don't think the prosecutors even wanna try this case. They seem so uninsterested in it. Also their witnesses suck. .
    Just like the witnesses in Ray's case. They didn't amount to anything and changed
    their stories. EVen the co-defendants were acquitted while the charges vs Ray were
    dropped.
    UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU.




  4. #28

    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    Well i think rhe police reports have said he confronted martin down the alley after he hung up. Theres a map of the path he took and where the killing was and its obvious that he at the very least met trayvon halfway. There was also a witness that said zimmerman was on top of him and said to call the police. I think what happened was zimmerman tried to detain him and succeeded but trayvon faught back and turned the tables. that would coincide with both testimonies. I think zimmerman thought he was doing the right thing but put himelf in that situation to have the tables turned. If thats the case, he could possibly be considered to have assaulted trayvon by apprehending him forcibly without reason or power, inwhich case i think he loses the ability to say it was self defense. However proving one way or another is going to be nearly impossible. 50 calls to 911 in a year and a half i think tells the story of zimmerman. Hes a busy body thats trying to do right in his mind but could have easily been pushed over the edge this time. Itll be interesting to see what the results are. Personally i think hes guilty, becuase theres noway trayvon is 20+ lbs heavier than him which i believe is commonly believed to make ones body a deadly weapon and i believe the scenario i said is probably cloaer to the truth. Tables were turned he got scared and reacted. Unfortunatley there is plenty shosing he was following and unhappy about the prospects of him getting away.

    HR i was curious if you thought she was being truthful or not. I do think she came off poorly in some ways considering the case but i dont think she was necessarily lying. Theres probably a good many reasons she would be short with law enforcement or people questioning her her honesty. Could have certainly went about it better. Also maybe you or your wife on whether it has to be unaminous or not. I know civil cases just have to be over 50% but wasnt sure of criminal and or the percentage required for verdict.
    Last edited by JAB1985; 06-28-2013 at 06:46 PM.
    -JAB




  5. #29
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    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    HR i was curious if you thought she was being truthful or not. I do think she came off poorly in some ways considering the case but i dont think she was necessarily lying. Theres probably a good many reasons she would be short with law enforcement or people questioning her her honesty. Could have certainly went about it better.
    I need to see the full testimony to get a gauge but I won't be able to do that until next week. I'm in Bmore this weekend on a mini vacation.

    I will say, from what I've read in news reports, she's an incredibly poor witness and she was billed by the prosecution as the star witness. She's already been exposed for lying by the defense so I don't think it's a big leap to think other parts of her testimony may be fabricated. She may have reasons for being less than truthful to the police but that has consequences. Justified or not, it will go to her credibility.

    The guy yesterday was a prosecution witness and he testified it was Trayvon on top of Zimmerman beating him up "ground and pound" style. That's two HUGE blunders back to back by the prosecution.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    Also maybe you or your wife on whether it has to be unaminous or not. I know civil cases just have to be over 50% but wasnt sure of criminal and or the percentage required for verdict.
    In all 50 states, you must have a unanimous jury for conviction in a capital case.

    Now some states have a different jury size. TX has a 12 person jury but FL has just 6.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  6. #30
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    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    Well i think rhe police reports have said he confronted martin down the alley after he hung up. Theres a map of the path he took and where the killing was and its obvious that he at the very least met trayvon halfway. There was also a witness that said zimmerman was on top of him and said to call the police. I think what happened was zimmerman tried to detain him and succeeded but trayvon faught back and turned the tables. that would coincide with both testimonies. I think zimmerman thought he was doing the right thing but put himelf in that situation to have the tables turned. If thats the case, he could possibly be considered to have assaulted trayvon by apprehending him forcibly without reason or power, inwhich case i think he loses the ability to say it was self defense. However proving one way or another is going to be nearly impossible. 50 calls to 911 in a year and a half i think tells the story of zimmerman. Hes a busy body thats trying to do right in his mind but could have easily been pushed over the edge this time. Itll be interesting to see what the results are. Personally i think hes guilty, becuase theres noway trayvon is 20+ lbs heavier than him which i believe is commonly believed to make ones body a deadly weapon and i believe the scenario i said is probably cloaer to the truth. Tables were turned he got scared and reacted. Unfortunatley there is plenty shosing he was following and unhappy about the prospects of him getting away.
    JAB, it would seem to me from how closely I’ve been following this (ever since NBC edited the 911 tape my interest was peaked) that you have not been.

    For example, Zimmerman was on top after the shots were fired. I think there has only been one testimony out of all the people that have said they think Zimmerman was on top before they heard a shot.

    From all the evidence so far, everything seems to corroborate Zimmerman’s story that they met (some how) Martin either sucker punched or punched Zimerman in the nose, breaking it and knocking him down, then jumping on top and punched him in the face beating his head into the concrete. Which was confirmed by the only witness that came outside to see what was going on. After that went on for at least 26 seconds (from the infamous 911 tape where you hear screaming for 26 seconds) before hearing the shot.

    As far as the walking shit show that was the State’s star witness. One thing she said that stood out to me. When asked something about Martin confronting Zimmerman she said “no, if he would have done that he would have said (something to the affect) I gotta let you go cause I’m gonna confront this cracka” (paraphrasing). Now I know as a lawyer you generally don’t want to ask question you don’t already know the answer to, but I would have had to have asked how she knew that. Had this happened before? Or is that what happened this time and she is lying?
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  7. #31

    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    Zimmerman will get acquitted after about an hour or less after the trial ends .
    That's how little of a case the prosecution has .




  8. #32

    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    JAB, it would seem to me from how closely I’ve been following this (ever since NBC edited the 911 tape my interest was peaked) that you have not been.

    For example, Zimmerman was on top after the shots were fired. I think there has only been one testimony out of all the people that have said they think Zimmerman was on top before they heard a shot.
    Because I dont see it the way you do, I must not have been following? That comes off a little condescending. Ive been reading up on it from multiple news outlets since it happened. Youre stating he was on top after as if it was impossible for him to ever have been on top before that or even before the shot. The beginning of the fight is whats in question and nobody has a testimony for that. the witnesses that are saying they saw it, are Good and Mora and they contradict each other and both miss crucial time in which he would be guilty or not. The timing of which could be theoretically the reason for it without either lying about what they saw. not saying your way is wrong, its plausible, im just putting together both testimonies because they both seem to be credible, yet contradicting.

    From all the evidence so far, everything seems to corroborate Zimmerman’s story that they met (some how) Martin either sucker punched or punched Zimerman in the nose, breaking it and knocking him down, then jumping on top and punched him in the face beating his head into the concrete. Which was confirmed by the only witness that came outside to see what was going on. After that went on for at least 26 seconds (from the infamous 911 tape where you hear screaming for 26 seconds) before hearing the shot.
    his story. whos on trial for murder. If he grabbed him first before that and that was the result of it, doesnt that change the whole story? I could come up and grab somebody and them kick my ass and it be considered self defense of my actions. I pull out a gun after that same scenario, I dont think Im defending myself, because i started the altercation. Thats basically what i feel happened and im mostly going by the way Zimmerman talked and his actions prior to any of it happening to form that opinion (prior calls, not wanting him to get away, continuing to follow him and eventually confronting). thats exactly why hes on trial. to try and prove whether he acted first or trayvon did. Whether they can prove one way or another is something i dont think they can because the only people that actually can testify to it, are on trial for it or dead.

    Youre also taking that the screaming is him, which depending on who you believe, the professionals that contradict each other, or the multiple witnesses that do as well, its going to lead you one way or another. could be him screaming until pulling out his gun and shooting Trayvon or the abrupt ending being trayvon screaming after Zimmerman pulled out the gun. Either way I think its more dependent upon what happened before that than in that exact moment. Im trying to put all the pieces together, at least credible ones, and i think thats where the truth is, somewhere in between.

    As far as the walking shit show that was the State’s star witness. One thing she said that stood out to me. When asked something about Martin confronting Zimmerman she said “no, if he would have done that he would have said (something to the affect) I gotta let you go cause I’m gonna confront this cracka” (paraphrasing). Now I know as a lawyer you generally don’t want to ask question you don’t already know the answer to, but I would have had to have asked how she knew that. Had this happened before? Or is that what happened this time and she is lying?
    I think she lost credibility for sure, so what she said i dont think carries much weight anymore. However I dont think she was necessarily lying about the phone conversation. obviously not the brightest crayon in the box, but you dont have to be intelligent to have heard somebody's last words unfortunately. If thats the best the state can do than like i said before, hell likely walk regardless if hes truly guilty or not.
    Last edited by JAB1985; 07-01-2013 at 06:50 AM.
    -JAB




  9. #33
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    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    I think both of you are saying the same thing.

    But JAB, I'd point out that while you may believe some of the info that's in the media, much of that has been underwhelming when brought to light.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  10. #34

    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    I think both of you are saying the same thing.

    But JAB, I'd point out that while you may believe some of the info that's in the media, much of that has been underwhelming when brought to light.
    Im not really basing this off the medias portrayal. Theyre pushing a racial agenda, and while i do think hes guilty of profiling, i dont think that plays much into him shooting Trayvon. I dont think he set out to shoot him because he was black. He clearly feared for his life in some capacity at one point or another. To me its whether he started the altercation or not that gives him the right to say he was defending himself. The prior calls, his own words, his actions arent being twisted by the media. I can listen to his 911 call and see his phone records and his actions that night of following him in the first place to say he thought he was doing the right thing but it ended badly and imo, he likely over stepped his bounds by trying to detain him. Theres no evidence saying he tried to to, I just feel that he probably did based on his thought that he was trying to help and was pissed that "they always get away". strictly opinion. with that said, i can see the side that thinks he confronted Trayvon and was attacked. Being followed and profiled i could see pissing off Trayvon to act in which case its possible to call it defending yourself. I tend to think Zimmerman did something more to provoke that but i freely admit it could have happened without him doing so.
    Last edited by JAB1985; 07-01-2013 at 07:42 AM.
    -JAB




  11. #35
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    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    Because I dont see it the way you do, I must not have been following? That comes off a little condescending. Ive been reading up on it from multiple news outlets since it happened. Youre stating he was on top after as if it was impossible for him to ever have been on top before that or even before the shot. The beginning of the fight is whats in question and nobody has a testimony for that. the witnesses that are saying they saw it, are Good and Mora and they contradict each other and both miss crucial time in which he would be guilty or not. The timing of which could be theoretically the reason for it without either lying about what they saw. not saying your way is wrong, its plausible, im just putting together both testimonies because they both seem to be credible, yet contradicting.
    My bad, it did come off condescending, but it’s not because you don’t see it my way that I said that because through evidence it’s virtually impossible for Zimmerman to be on top at any point before the shot was fired.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    his story. whos on trial for murder.
    So you didn’t believe anything Ray Lewis said either?

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    continuing to follow him and eventually confronting)
    How do you know he continued to follow and/ or confronted him? That’s conjecture, at best,

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    Youre also taking that the screaming is him, which depending on who you believe, the professionals that contradict each other, or the multiple witnesses that do as well
    There was only one witness that I’ve heard say they saw someone screaming and that was Good, the only person that came outside during the fight. And why would Martin be screaming for help when he had no wounds on his body but the shot and bruising on his knuckles?


    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    Im not really basing this off the medias portrayal. Theyre pushing a racial agenda, and while i do think hes guilty of profiling,.
    He didn’t know he was black until after he called, at least that’s how it sounds on the call to the police to report a suspicious person
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  12. #36

    Re: George Zimmerman Trial

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    My bad, it did come off condescending, but it’s not because you don’t see it my way that I said that because through evidence it’s virtually impossible for Zimmerman to be on top at any point before the shot was fired.
    Besides the point that everybodies testimony starts after they heard yelling and/or fighting. Nobodies testimony has any reflection on the initial meeting between the two, besides Jeantel, who ive not really been using despite her testimony strongly favoring that Zimmerman confronted Tayvon. I dont think we know anything about that first moment which is exactly what we need to for a conclusion.

    So you didn’t believe anything Ray Lewis said either?
    If youre asking if I though Ray Lewis was capable of lying to cover up what he did, yes. After everything, i dont think he did it and admitted to what he was guilty of. at the time, i certainly took what he said with a grain of salt. now with hindsight in my favor i dont need to.

    How do you know he continued to follow and/ or confronted him? That’s conjecture, at best.
    police reports? his own admittance? simple geography of where he started and where he ended up? the fact that they met face to face in the end? Im not sure im seeing where almost any of that is conjecture. he says he stopped following him at one point, but yet where the killing ended up is at another and off his path back to his car. like i said originally, at the very least hes guilty of at least meeting him half way, assuming they saw each other and walked towards each other. If thats not the case, it would seem he was still following or looking for him as his path leads towards Trayvons house.

    There was only one witness that I’ve heard say they saw someone screaming and that was Good, the only person that came outside during the fight. And why would Martin be screaming for help when he had no wounds on his body but the shot and bruising on his knuckles?
    then i guess i should question how closely youve been following . Im not questioning that Trayvon hit Zimmerman, thats a given but its possible he hit him and Zimmerman pulled out his gun, to which couldve scared Trayvon to yell for help (and possibly stopped the fight before needing to fire the weapon). Even Good himself stated he wasnt sure who was yelling. Selma Moras testimony has Zimmerman on top of Trayvon, not the other way around. She was outside on her porch as well. All of that doesnt even matter to me. Its the initial meeting and who was the first to make physical contact. which again, theres nothing to support one way or another.

    youre not the only one that has taken Good's testimony and just ignored Mora's. maybe because it was in Spanish and translated its less credible? honestly I have no idea whats driving that. She seems credible to me and was in just as good of a position as Good was ultimately.

    He didn’t know he was black until after he called, at least that’s how it sounds on the call to the police to report a suspicious person
    he said "I think hes black". so no, he had a pretty good idea he was black or at the very least assumed he was. either way, a guy walking through the neighborhood with a hoody was enough to call the police and assume he was up to something and worth following around the development. That along with doing so 50+ other times says all I need to know about Zimmerman.
    Last edited by JAB1985; 07-01-2013 at 09:31 AM.
    -JAB




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