No Debate Necessary- Baltimore Ravens Mount Rushmore

**Cj34** · 06-24-2013, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by lowrider

Well, since there's no debate necessary I guess there's no need to disagree with your list. However, if it were my list I would have to include Modell. Without him there is no Mount Rushmore. And Stover would have to be on it as well.

I think your list is a good one, there just needs to be room for more then 4.

Agree 100%. If the Ravens Mt. Rushmore includes non-players then it has to include Art. There wouldn't be a Mt. Rushmore...wouldn't be 2 SB's...no Ray, Ogden, Reed...and we'd probably still be screwed by the NFL and used as leverage by other owners.

**GOTA** · 06-24-2013, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by Cj34

Agree 100%. If the Ravens Mt. Rushmore includes non-players then it has to include Art. There wouldn't be a Mt. Rushmore...wouldn't be 2 SB's...no Ray, Ogden, Reed...and we'd probably still be screwed by the NFL and used as leverage by other owners.

You could use that argument for every original owner of every franchise. Should they all be there?

**Cj34** · 06-24-2013, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by GOTA

You could use that argument for every original owner of every franchise. Should they all be there?

GOTA that's flat out ridiculous. Name me another city that's gone through what Baltimore has. No other city with our history has been shit on by the NFL for 13 yrs, used by other NFL owners to get a sweeter deal and passed over for expansions by cities the likes of Jacksonville and Charlotte. If it wasn't for Modell we STILL wouldn't have a team. The die hard football fans would still be rooting for whoever we rooted for in the 80's after the Colts left and a lot of Ravens fans wouldn't even be football fans right now.

**GOTA** · 06-24-2013, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Cj34

GOTA that's flat out ridiculous. Name me another city that's gone through what Baltimore has. No other city with our history has been shit on by the NFL for 13 yrs, used by other NFL owners to get a sweeter deal and passed over for expansions by cities the likes of Jacksonville and Charlotte. If it wasn't for Modell we STILL wouldn't have a team. The die hard football fans would still be rooting for whoever we rooted for in the 80's after the Colts left and a lot of Ravens fans wouldn't even be football fans right now.

Who would the old Cardinals fans be routing for if Georgia Frontiere didn't move the Rams to St. Louis? How about Bob McNair in Houston who came in with almost unlimited money to make sure that Houston got their team back. Lots of owners made huge commitments to cities and fanbases and are the reason they had a team. That asshole Irsay is probably in discussion for the Indy Mt. Rushmore.

I love Modell but if I wouldn't bump any of the 4 that The Excellector posted for him. 4 HOF players with one of them also being a HOF GM is tough to beat.

**The Excellector** · 06-24-2013, 01:31 PM

People might not want to hear this, but Modell was one of those owners trying to use Baltimore to get a sweeter deal. However, Cleveland called his bluff.

**Gabrosin** · 06-24-2013, 03:18 PM

I'm torn on this. I love this list, but I too want to find a place for Art. However, I don't think you can put him there instead of Ozzie. And obviously Ray isn't coming off the list. So that leaves Reed and Ogden, both of them in the discussion for the best player at their position ever.

Blasphemous as it may be to say this... I feel like Modell should get Ogden's spot. I'd rather have the discussion only include players, so we could sit here debating whether Flacco or Stover or Suggs or someone else gets that final spot. But there's no team without Art Modell and there may be no championships without Ozzie's GM-ing prowess. So when you look at Ogden vs. Reed, I'm going with Reed.

**Ravenswintitle** · 06-24-2013, 04:10 PM

You'll get most everyone to agree on Ray Lewis and Ed Reed. From there you'll get several opinions of rounding out the other two.

Should be players only IMO which is why I would go with Ogden and Stover. For a good ten years this team was built on defense and there wasn't much offense outside of running the ball and kicking field goals.

**BcRaven** · 06-24-2013, 04:21 PM

(1) Bill Belichick [failed in Cleveland so team could be moved]; (2) Art Modell [man who moved team to Baltimore]; (3) Earnest Byner [Ring of Honor]; (4) my sister-in-law who drove me to drink in Maryland, all the other United States, plus Washington D.C. ;) ... Bc

**lowrider** · 06-24-2013, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

People might not want to hear this, but Modell was one of those owners trying to use Baltimore to get a sweeter deal. However, Cleveland called his bluff.

LOL! Yes they did.

**lowrider** · 06-24-2013, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by GOTA

Who would the old Cardinals fans be routing for if Georgia Frontiere didn't move the Rams to St. Louis? How about Bob McNair in Houston who came in with almost unlimited money to make sure that Houston got their team back. Lots of owners made huge commitments to cities and fanbases and are the reason they had a team. That asshole Irsay is probably in discussion for the Indy Mt. Rushmore.

I love Modell but if I wouldn't bump any of the 4 that The Excellector posted for him. 4 HOF players with one of them also being a HOF GM is tough to beat.

You make a good point, however, this is our Mt. Rushmore we are talking about. Not St. Louis, Houston, or Indy. If we choose to include Art, that's our business. As for Indy if they were ever to put that drunken bafoon on their Mt. Rushmore it would provide plenty of comical relief. LOL!

**ursula** · 06-25-2013, 11:38 AM

Regardless, I am happy that Modell moved the team. But that's not enough for this Mt Rushmore. Modell is one of a bunch of respected players, coaches, and front office staff/owners who have made major contributions to the team who don't make the cut. In the end, four people stand out and it is as the first post by The Excellector has it:

Ray Lewis

Ed Reed

Jonathan Ogden

Ozzie Newsome

What would be interesting is arguing who is on the second team....

Stover, Modell, Harbaugh, Suggs, Flacco, Biscotti, Boulware, etc.....

**cjandrze** · 06-25-2013, 12:34 PM

"Should be players only IMO which is why I would go with Ogden and Stover. For a good ten years this team was built on defense and there wasn't much offense outside of running the ball and kicking field goals. "

If this is true, (which it is), isn't there a debate on whether Jamal should be up there? No Jamal, No SB 35.