A historical comparison of Joe Flacco through year #5- Part 3 (qualitative)

**HotInHere** · 06-19-2013, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by s.r.genovese

I agree the comparison should be to his peers in this era and where they project; it would be much more revealing than comparisons to Troy Aikman. And honestly, that is what the writers are going to look at when they vote for the HOF.

I don't have a problem with it. It doesn't exclude current QB's. It shows how Joe stacks up against Rivers, Manning, Manning, Brady, Rapist, Ryan, etc etc. We can all account for different eras as we weight our opinions. But facts is facts.

**LukeDaniel** · 06-20-2013, 11:03 AM

Part of the layer of this was not only to show how Flacco's stats stack up to others, but also to show how little he has been hampered by "growing pains" like so many quarterbacking legends.

Look at Fouts, Tarkenton, Bradshaw, and Namath. Fouts and Bradshaw were awful NFL quarterbacks through their first five years. There was little about their resume after five NFL seasons that screamed "future hall of famer" (some would argue there is still little about Bradshaw's resume that screams Hall of Famer). Tarkenton wasn't much better. Namath had some resemblance of a HOFer in this first five NFL seasons, but really did little to polish that resume afterwards.

Steve Young was a backup with ho-hum stats in the limited time he did play.

Montana had a good start to his career, but was not the master of efficiency that he displayed through the mid-to-late 80s.

Warren Moon didn't take a snap until he was 28.

Roger Staubach didn't play a down in his first 5 post-college seasons.

Even Elway, as much of a stud as he often was, had massive turnover struggles early in his career (and before you chalk that up to his era, note that Elway had a higher INT ratio than draft classmates O'Brien and Eason).

Of all the QBs who are in the HOF and started their career after 1960, the only one who was on a clear HOF arc after year 5was Marino. Montana was getting close. Namath, as mentioned earlier, was close as well, but really did little after year #5 to enhance that resume. He really had only one good NFL season after year five.

Flacco is wayyyyyy ahead of over half of the HOF QB fraternity because so many people in that club did very little with their careers until their late 20s.

**GOTA** · 06-20-2013, 11:11 AM

Who knew that Ken O'Brien would rank so high? I saw him every week growing up in NY and honestly he was a completely mediocre QB. The more important the situation the worse O'Brien would play. He was kind of the anti-Flacco in that respect.

**LukeDaniel** · 06-20-2013, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by GOTA

Who knew that Ken O'Brien would rank so high? I saw him every week growing up in NY and honestly he was a completely mediocre QB. The more important the situation the worse O'Brien would play. He was kind of the anti-Flacco in that respect.

For what it's worth, O'Brien was the #1 ranked QB in the NFL in lowest INT% in three of his first five NFL seasons. He had seasons of 2.0, 1.7, and 1.6%....all of which led the league. He also led an 11-5 Jets team in year #2 by passing for 3888 yards (significant back then) and 25TDs-8INT. He led the NFL in QB rating that year.

I can't speak for his "clutchosity", but from a raw statistical line, he was a pretty good QB, particularly early in his career.

**ravensnhokies** · 06-20-2013, 04:09 PM

GOTA... How about that 1986 duel against the Dolphins? That O'Brien last minute drive to tie up the game was as clutch as it gets with him throwing a 20yd TD to Walker on the last play of game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvjbR2Jt34s

Note the video starts up at around 2:20... also check out Part 15 on Youtube for the fantastic ending for Jets... that was a clear fumble on the kickoff.

Kenny will always be remembered as the QB the Jets took instead of Marino. Sure Marino was a heck of a lot better, but overall, Kenny had a pretty solid career. His best years were his earlier years when he had Walker, in his prime, and Toon, the young stud WR, and a 'Todd Heap like' TE, Mickey Shuler. After the successful mid 80s, it was the Jets defense that sucked, not Kenny.

re: Marino... Way overhyped... He was a regular season superstar that carved up mediocre defenses, but then came back down to earth in the playoffs....8-10 W/L in playoffs with a 77 QBR and no rings. Sorta Peyton-like except for Peyton's 2006 Colts D won him a ring... no thanks to him.

**LukeDaniel** · 06-20-2013, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by ravensnhokies

re: Marino... Way overhyped... He was a regular season superstar that carved up mediocre defenses, but then came back down to earth in the playoffs....8-10 W/L in playoffs with a 77 QBR and no rings. Sorta Peyton-like except for Peyton's 2006 Colts D won him a ring... no thanks to him.

Add the three words "in a dome" somewhere in the above description and you have Matt Ryan's career summary thusfar.

**GOTA** · 06-20-2013, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by ravensnhokies

GOTA... How about that 1986 duel against the Dolphins? That O'Brien last minute drive to tie up the game was as clutch as it gets with him throwing a 20yd TD to Walker on the last play of game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvjbR2Jt34s

Note the video starts up at around 2:20... also check out Part 15 on Youtube for the fantastic ending for Jets... that was a clear fumble on the kickoff.

Kenny will always be remembered as the QB the Jets took instead of Marino. Sure Marino was a heck of a lot better, but overall, Kenny had a pretty solid career. His best years were his earlier years when he had Walker, in his prime, and Toon, the young stud WR, and a 'Todd Heap like' TE, Mickey Shuler. After the successful mid 80s, it was the Jets defense that sucked, not Kenny.

re: Marino... Way overhyped... He was a regular season superstar that carved up mediocre defenses, but then came back down to earth in the playoffs....8-10 W/L in playoffs with a 77 QBR and no rings. Sorta Peyton-like except for Peyton's 2006 Colts D won him a ring... no thanks to him.

O'Brien had 2 very good seasons early in his career and it was like the train just stopped moving. As you can imagine he was often compared to Phil Simms who played in the same town. Simms would take chances and force balls a lot of balls but he would also make key plays because of it. O'Brien would hold on to the ball and not make those interception but get crushed and take a lot of sacks. I do wonder if all those hits is why he seemed to go down hill so quickly. I saw the same thing in Drew Bledsoe.

It's very tough to just look at stats in football. Phil Simms probably didn't put up the stats that Ken O'Brien did but he was a much better QB playing at the same time in the same town.