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  1. #145
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    Re: Goodbye Vontae Leach

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    Actually, this team is better than the SB team except for Boldin's spot.
    But that perspective could easily change once the season rolls around. How many of us saw the Ravens actually signing Doom? We were all thinking they were going to HAVE to rely on guys like McAdoo, Hamilton, and a rookie to help Suggs get after the QB.

    I'm not saying anyone we currently have on the roster is going to be able to do what Boldin is able to do, but I think Pitta can effectively be that possess/slot red-zone receiver.
    Disclaimer: The content posted is of my own opinion.





  2. #146
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    Re: Goodbye Vonta Leach

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    Only because Joe and the offense bailed them out after that 10th ranked D gave up
    almost 500 yards (300 in the air) and 31 points in the SB.

    Then Ozzie gutted that 10th ranked D.

    Maybe this year you'll be right.
    I think we can all agree that, at the very least, this defense is probably MUCH faster than they were last year and that could help translate to a very stout and highly ranked D.
    Disclaimer: The content posted is of my own opinion.





  3. #147
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    Re: Goodbye Vonta Leach

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    Way to totally avoid my point. You were wrong about last year's defense, even bristling when I dared to broach the subject that the defense of 2012 would not be as good as years past. I even offered a friendly wager (a steak dinner for two at the restaurant of your choice). Predictably, you wouldn't back up your words
    I don't like to wager monetary bets with A) someone I don't know and B) on the internet. Ask anyone here. I've never done that. I don't even like playing poker with friends at a party and the buy in is only 20 bucks or something. The one online bet that I did on here was with BleedPurple92 a few years ago and the bet was whoever lost had to change their avatar to the winner's choosing for a month.

    The defense was certainly not as good as it has been in the past. Age definitely caught up with Ed and Ray. Secondly, not having Suggs, McClain, and Webb for most of the season definitely impacted the things that Dean Pees may (or may not) have been able to do with the D.

    Still though, with the way the offense played down the stretch and into the post-season, the defense just needed to be good, not great. They finished 17th for average yards against per game (350.9 as per NFL.com) and they finished 12th in total points against (344). They also finished 12th for average points against per game (21.5). Interestingly enough, they were in the top 10 (10th) for average yards against per play (5.2), but they just couldn't get off the field consistently, so they were in the bottom 5 of the league for total plays from scrimmage (1,089). That put them in the same categorical discussions with Cleveland, Jacksonville, New Orleans, Minnesota, and Tennessee; all of which had bottom-feeder D's last year. Baltimore was also in the bottom three for time of possession against with an average of 32:25 per game (which makes what the offense did even more impressive when you figure they, on average, had the ball less than half of the game). Another interesting note is that the offensive 3rd down percentage against the Ravens was 36%, which was good for top 10 (7th). So, clearly the Ravens had their largest issues on 1st and 2nd down.

    Hopefully Dean Pees will address those issues and hopefully getting a healthy Suggs and Webb back will help with that.

    I just don't understand your always wanting to find a negative aspect about the team when it is June.
    Last edited by wickedsolo; 06-12-2013 at 07:50 AM. Reason: typo
    Disclaimer: The content posted is of my own opinion.





  4. #148
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    Re: Goodbye Vonta Leach

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I just don't understand your always wanting to find a negative aspect about the team when it is June.
    Point taken about the betting part. However, expressing concern about a particular unit and being negative are two different things, IMO. It's not my nature or intent to be negative; I was just wondering how all these new faces were going to factor in. Football is the ultimate team sport. I foresee growing pains, that's all.





  5. #149
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    Re: Goodbye Vontae Leach

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    To suggest that the loss of nine starters, including two first ballot Hall of Famers, would not negatively impact a football team is even more laughable.
    With the exception of Boldin who hasn't been replaced? Every position except for WR and possibly C (too early to tell) has been upgraded. The reason I don't see much negativity is because we didn't just seek athletic football players we sought character guys as well. I love Ray and Reed, but they were done and I'm glad to see them go out on top. I'll take Huff and Brown/Smith over Ray and Reed and it's be silly not to agree with that.
    "Cause if you ain’t pissed off for greatness, that just means you’re okay with being mediocre, and ain’t no man in here okay with just basic.”
    - Ray Lewis

    https://www.baltimoreravens.com/author/cole-jackson

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  6. #150
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    Re: Goodbye Vontae Leach

    Quote Originally Posted by runrayrun27 View Post
    With the exception of Boldin who hasn't been replaced? Every position except for WR and possibly C (too early to tell) has been upgraded. The reason I don't see much negativity is because we didn't just seek athletic football players we sought character guys as well. I love Ray and Reed, but they were done and I'm glad to see them go out on top. I'll take Huff and Brown/Smith over Ray and Reed and it's be silly not to agree with that.

    See post #148





  7. #151
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    Re: Goodbye Vontae Leach

    I know 'on paper' the team replaced a lot of players, but I have some of the same concerns as Terp. Can you really replace Ray Lewis and Ed Reed plus Pollard, Ellerbe, Kruger, etc. with rookies and FAs not expect a fall off? Can Boldin's clutch catches be replaced with a young WR and what about the loss of Leach?

    On paper they have done a fine job bringing in young talent, as this team continually does. They don't rest on their laurels. But they have to come together as a team and that could take time.

    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!





  8. #152

    Re: Goodbye Vontae Leach

    I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect the defense to be fast and opportunistic, yet still struggle...maybe for as long as the first 5-7 weeks of the season. Especially with situational football. Doesn't mean it will happen, of course, but no organization, unit, business or team experiences the high degree of change that our defense has not be adversely impacted in some regard.

    Look at IND, PIT, GB and NYG. None of those recent SB winners experienced an OS anything close to ours, yet each of them failed to win a PO game, or completely missed the POs for the following season. Was it b/c of their defenses? Not sure, but cohesion and familiarity matters.

    Ultimately, I think our defense will finish the season looking like a crew of pro-bowlers, but I expect some struggles before the bye-week, b/c (to quote a certain politician) change is hard.
    "The Ravens are not taking Jimmy Smith at 26!" -- Me, the day before the 2011 Draft

    "On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the 2015 Draft

    Missed it by That Much: The story of 'Get Smart' and the modern day Baltimore Ravens

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  9. #153

    Re: Goodbye Vontae Leach

    I like most of the moves made and understand why Ozzie had to do it for a variety of reasons. I think he did an incredible job of replacing what looked like huge losses with solid talent. My concerns are mainly chemistry and the fact that a lot of optimism is based on major assumptions. Chemistry - those guys on D were playing together for several years. That experience can help offset physical limitations (age/speed/strength/etc). And the pure football knowledge and preparation that Lewis and Reed would do benefits the whole defensive unit in a major way.

    As far as assumption based optimism:

    Pollard/Reed - Huff/Elam We're putting a lot of faith in Elam who has never played an NFL down. And hoping he can replace a HOF. Say what you want about Ed's physical ability last year, his mental ability and reputation made every QB think twice. He might not have been able to tackle, but he could still cover ground to break up a pass or pick it off. Not like the Ed Reed of old, but still better than many.

    Lewis/Ellerbe - Brown/Smith Again, a rookie who has never played a down and is coming off surgery, albeit minor. And assumption that Smith returns to form in a new lineup. I'm also worried about depth, especially McClain

    Krueger - Dumervil No doubt, major upgrade

    Williams - Webb On paper, no doubt. But lets not forget Webb is coming back from a severe injury that is difficult to recover from. When he hurt the other knee it took several games for him to really get back to "Webb".

    Kemo - Williams - Let's face it, just about anyone would have been an upgrade

    Birk - Gino - There is no way you can legitimately say this is an upgrade. Sure Birk needed to be replaced, but it's a little early to be saying a full season of Gino is an upgrade.

    Leach - Juice This is the one I have a lot of concern over. Not to doubt Juice's ability, but everyone's penciling him in as the replacement to the best FB in the game based on production at Harvard. Again, never played a down in the NFL. I have high hopes for him, as I do for every new face, but his legend has grown very quickly.

    Boldin - Undetermined? Committee? I agree with all the comments on separation, etc. I loved Boldin, and this is probably the one move I was most surprised by and upset for. Also, don't forget what a tough blocker he was in the run game.





  10. #154
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    Re: Goodbye Vontae Leach

    Quote Originally Posted by BPF2 View Post
    I like most of the moves made and understand why Ozzie had to do it for a variety of reasons. I think he did an incredible job of replacing what looked like huge losses with solid talent. My concerns are mainly chemistry and the fact that a lot of optimism is based on major assumptions. Chemistry - those guys on D were playing together for several years. That experience can help offset physical limitations (age/speed/strength/etc). And the pure football knowledge and preparation that Lewis and Reed would do benefits the whole defensive unit in a major way.

    As far as assumption based optimism:

    Pollard/Reed - Huff/Elam We're putting a lot of faith in Elam who has never played an NFL down. And hoping he can replace a HOF. Say what you want about Ed's physical ability last year, his mental ability and reputation made every QB think twice. He might not have been able to tackle, but he could still cover ground to break up a pass or pick it off. Not like the Ed Reed of old, but still better than many.

    Lewis/Ellerbe - Brown/Smith Again, a rookie who has never played a down and is coming off surgery, albeit minor. And assumption that Smith returns to form in a new lineup. I'm also worried about depth, especially McClain

    Krueger - Dumervil No doubt, major upgrade

    Williams - Webb On paper, no doubt. But lets not forget Webb is coming back from a severe injury that is difficult to recover from. When he hurt the other knee it took several games for him to really get back to "Webb".

    Kemo - Williams - Let's face it, just about anyone would have been an upgrade

    Birk - Gino - There is no way you can legitimately say this is an upgrade. Sure Birk needed to be replaced, but it's a little early to be saying a full season of Gino is an upgrade.

    Leach - Juice This is the one I have a lot of concern over. Not to doubt Juice's ability, but everyone's penciling him in as the replacement to the best FB in the game based on production at Harvard. Again, never played a down in the NFL. I have high hopes for him, as I do for every new face, but his legend has grown very quickly.

    Boldin - Undetermined? Committee? I agree with all the comments on separation, etc. I loved Boldin, and this is probably the one move I was most surprised by and upset for. Also, don't forget what a tough blocker he was in the run game.

    Great post. Welcome to the board.





  11. #155
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    Re: Goodbye Vontae Leach

    The same offseason (pre-2011 season) that the Ravens ditched Derrick Mason, Kelly Gregg, Todd Heap, and Willis McGahee, they picked up Leach and Pollard.* Many fretted that they were losing too much identity, leadership, and chemistry. Leach and Pollard were the kind of additions that made those worries moot, but I'm more impressed with the Ravens for finding those right pieces than I am with them for being right pieces.

    Maybe I'm overconfident in this coaching/front office group, but I'd be surprised if they weren't able to do similiar work in this situation. I recognize that more players were lost in this offseason (and that the defense losing Ray and Ed in no way equates to losing Kelly Gregg). But the core of this team is also older, more experienced, and more accomplished than they were then. They seem to be able to clearly identify critical team needs, develop solutions, and effectively implement them. From top down, they've shown themselves to be a pretty cohesive and functional management group. Sure, I'd like to see for myself what the solution to Boldin's absence will be, but I'm not really worried about this particular group, at this point, having an identity. Honestly, I think the guys who remain are pretty clear on their identity - they are the defending World Champions. Anybody coming in doesn't need to lead - they need to get with that. And I think the current coaching staff (Harbs, in particular) is pretty good at making buying in seem like a good idea (regardless of last year's supposed mutiny).

    *well, Lee Evans, too, but let's just forget about that part





  12. #156
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    Re: Goodbye Vonta Leach

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    I agree for the most part, especially with regards to speed and athleticism at safety and inside linebacker. My concern is the (lack of) identity. With the departed, especially Pollard, Boldin and Leach, we had the identity of being a rough, physical team who, even if you beat them, physically you lost. Hell the Steelers hated playing us because after one of those battles it took two games to recover. We are at a cross roads, IMO because it's going to take while for the replacements to forge an identity of their own.
    Bang-on. Overall we have more talent this year than last. Pure, physical, football-playing ability. But I remember the Eagles a couple years ago acquiring so much football talent that they were nearly awarded the Lombardi in August. We saw how that worked out.

    The big unknown (and it will remain unknown until February) is the impact of the loss of so much leadership and attitude. We have all worked in environments where everyone worked their asses off for a common goal, and those who didn't got weeded out. We have also worked in environments where everyone just showed up and got a paycheck. The Ravens under Ray have been a prime example of the former almost entirely without exception since 1996. But we have to at least wonder if and how that is going to change with such a huge percentage in roster turnover. This will be Harbs' toughest coaching task.

    My one comfort so far is that I am sensing that most of the guys they have brought in fit the mold pretty well.
    "Chin up, chest out."





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