Page 23 of 27 FirstFirst ... 13192021222324252627 LastLast
Results 331 to 345 of 391
  1. #331
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Wilton, CT
    Posts
    16,030
    Blog Entries
    7

    Re: Goodbye Vontae Leach



    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    I still question whether his return would strengthen the team. Mentor for Juice for 2m? ST player for 2m vs league min? losing a bubble player at more pivotal position and/or with more long term value? I like Leach i just question if this makes us any better now and in the future, certainly for the money (reported). I just dont see the value in bringing him back.
    Leach is the best blocking FB in the NFL. No one even questions that statement. There are all sorts of game situations where those kind of blocks make the difference. Since the issue is 2013, what bubble player for this year would the Ravens have to lose if they signed Leach for $2 million? Who is that guy and would he have a greater impact than Leach?
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  2. #332

    Re: Goodbye Vontae Leach

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    I know there is no way to ever quantify what a football player does into the baseball equivalent of Wins Above Replacement, but I wish there was some "Points above Replacement" stat out there.

    If Leach makes 4-5 goal line blocks over the course of the season that Juice-check wouldn't make or wouldn't make as well, and that puts 3-4 extra 7s on the board versus 3s....right there is a numerical justification of his contract alone.

    In my opinion, if you have to sacrifice an extra $1.5m against your salary cap to secure a player who adds only an extra 8 points to your teams column (two TDs versus FGs), I still think that's a good value for that money. That's not even factoring the impact his blocking would make on short-distance non-goalline situations.

    Without knowing how good or not good Juice will be, I think it's a reasonable assessment that Leach's flawless blocking will probably contribute a few critical short yardage conversions that wouldn't have been converted if any other fullback in the league was replacing him.

    The salary cap impact is a very low factor. This late in the football offseason, whatever veteran might potentially come available at CB or WR is not going to carry to the price tag to endanger our salary cap. Assuming Leach signs, I believe that still puts us around $4m under the cap.

    The only negative that I see is what you alluded to about him taking away a spot from a younger fringe player with more long-term upside. However, the Ravens have historically proven to be very shrewd at protecting those type of players from other organizations.
    Well i think our main difference here is that you feel Juice is going to miss blocks while im assuming hes coached to know his assignments. Because Leach is great at finishing blocks doesnt mean that a FB has to decleat a LB to effectively block said LB. Thats also not saying Juice doesnt have that same ability either as were yet to see it. That ability to put a LB on his ass may be what separates him from average but at the end of the day I dont see the value in it because im figuring Juice to be able to effectively block regardless. The 4-5 blocks also isnt taking into account what plays Juice could have end up as TDs as well. its possible that what Juice offers in the passing game and being a duel threat mitigates those points (-4/5 goalline vs +4/5 passing). which means theres little to no value in adding him when taking into account that another player will be lost at a position well more likely need than 2 FBs.
    -JAB




  3. #333

    Re: Goodbye Vontae Leach

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Leach is the best blocking FB in the NFL. No one even questions that statement. There are all sorts of game situations where those kind of blocks make the difference. Since the issue is 2013, what bubble player for this year would the Ravens have to lose if they signed Leach for $2 million? Who is that guy and would he have a greater impact than Leach?
    and like i said, imo, the best vs guys not even in the league when you consider how many teams dont even carry one, isnt that great of a difference. Saying hes the best is fine, saying a guy off the street isnt capable of filling his blocking assignment i think is taking away from our coaches ability to coach. Carrying two FBs seems like and odd place to value roster spots. when the majority of the league, including our own with caldwell, arent using them either at all or at a high percentage.

    I have less issue with the 2m assuming we can still carry over the max allowed to help us with next years cap. thats where 2m vs min comes into play for me, not this years cap necessarily, but its implications on next years.

    as far as which bubble player, it could be a lot. could be our 6th WR, our 6/7th DB, a DL or most likely our 3rd TE. 1 year of Leach for goalline worth losing a Furstenburg who could be our 2nd TE next year? I personally just dont see the value in wasting another spot on position we already were phasing out before we had Caldwell calling it.

    whats the point in having the best at a position if hes on the sideline 60%+ (assuming hes not splitting time with Juice)?
    Last edited by JAB1985; 07-25-2013 at 10:23 AM.
    -JAB




  4. #334
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    over by the dental floss bush
    Posts
    17,944
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Goodbye Vonta Leach

    Leach is the chiropractor. He can spring a play that makes the difference in the outcome.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  5. #335
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Arbutus
    Posts
    1,875

    Re: Goodbye Vontae Leach

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    Well i think our main difference here is that you feel Juice is going to miss blocks while im assuming hes coached to know his assignments. Because Leach is great at finishing blocks doesnt mean that a FB has to decleat a LB to effectively block said LB. Thats also not saying Juice doesnt have that same ability either as were yet to see it. That ability to put a LB on his ass may be what separates him from average but at the end of the day I dont see the value in it because im figuring Juice to be able to effectively block regardless. The 4-5 blocks also isnt taking into account what plays Juice could have end up as TDs as well. its possible that what Juice offers in the passing game and being a duel threat mitigates those points (-4/5 goalline vs +4/5 passing). which means theres little to no value in adding him when taking into account that another player will be lost at a position well more likely need than 2 FBs.
    Juice looks like he was a great pick, but he has yet to play a down in the NFL. Bringing Leach on the field may telegraph the O's intentions, especially in short yardage situations. However, sometimes you want to be able to do something, even when the defense knows what you're doing. Picking up short yards, running the ball down people's throat whether they tried to stop it or not, these are things we did in the past that broke teams spirit and we need that element in this division.




  6. #336
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Arbutus
    Posts
    1,875

    Re: Goodbye Vontae Leach

    To add, having all the high flying, high octane passing weapons in the world are great in domes and when there's nice weather, but in the AFC North there is one certainty in your football season:

    Winter is Coming!





  7. #337
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    6,146
    Blog Entries
    7

    Re: Goodbye Vontae Leach

    I'd prefer to have Leach back at less than the supposed $2M base offer. I value his experience and leadership and toughness. But not at $2M.




  8. #338
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Wilton, CT
    Posts
    16,030
    Blog Entries
    7

    Re: Goodbye Vontae Leach

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    and like i said, imo, the best vs guys not even in the league when you consider how many teams dont even carry one, isnt that great of a difference. Saying hes the best is fine, saying a guy off the street isnt capable of filling his blocking assignment i think is taking away from our coaches ability to coach. Carrying two FBs seems like and odd place to value roster spots. when the majority of the league, including our own with caldwell, arent using them either at all or at a high percentage.

    I have less issue with the 2m assuming we can still carry over the max allowed to help us with next years cap. thats where 2m vs min comes into play for me, not this years cap necessarily, but its implications on next years.

    as far as which bubble player, it could be a lot. could be our 6th WR, our 6/7th DB, a DL or most likely our 3rd TE. 1 year of Leach for goalline worth losing a Furstenburg who could be our 2nd TE next year? I personally just dont see the value in wasting another spot on position we already were phasing out before we had Caldwell calling it.

    whats the point in having the best at a position if hes on the sideline 60%+ (assuming hes not splitting time with Juice)?
    Juice isn't going to be a fullback. He's going to be a Joe Gibbs style H-back. If they do resign Leach, KJ will be the 3rd TE. You're going to see a lot of short yardage with Leach and KJ on the field at the same time.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  9. #339
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    where my head touches the pillow
    Posts
    7,202
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Goodbye Vontae Leach

    Juice, pitta and dickson is a mistmatch nightmare




  10. #340
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    over by the dental floss bush
    Posts
    17,944
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Goodbye Vonta Leach

    Think of those multiple TE packages the 9ers run. No reason Leach and Juice couldn't fill those occasional roles plus Furst from MD


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  11. #341
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    The Land of Verdite
    Posts
    13,337
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Goodbye Vontae Leach

    Vontae Leach didn't just complete his assignment. He didn't just put guys on their ass. He intimidated defenders. How many times did we see defenders shy away from Leach, opening more space for Ray Rice and company. His presence impacts the game. That is something that Juice will not immediately bring to the table. There are still plenty of situations that will require his services. On the goalline. Short yardage. Fourth quarter with a lead. You don't want to become one of these teams that has to continue to throw, because they can't run to eat the clock. You want to stay aggressive, but it's hard to quantify Leach's total impact on games, compared to what you would expect from Juice.

    And I think not taking a chance on trying to figure that out, is worth 2 million and a roster spot.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  12. #342
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    where my head touches the pillow
    Posts
    7,202
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Goodbye Vonta Leach

    Exel i feel you there what Leach bring is that physical presence to run anbody that can pancake patrick willis for a rice 10yrd run needs to be on this team i fear the running game wont be the same without leach i really dont see Juice being that physical but as Gota pointed out he wi be used more of Cooley type player as we know Cooley was a beast just not a physical guy in run blocking.




  13. #343
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    The Land of Verdite
    Posts
    13,337
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Goodbye Vonta Leach

    I can definitely see Ray Rice being more successful in lighter packages, where the box is clearer and he is able to hit the hole more quickly. However, to see Pierce running behind Leach in the fourth quarter instills confidence in the idea that they'll close out the game. That also makes the play action a little easier. They'd only have to hit it once or twice.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  14. #344
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    where my head touches the pillow
    Posts
    7,202
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Goodbye Vonta Leach

    True that! Love watching the new Ravens close out games going heavy and just beating the shit outta teams down the fourth linebackers starting to crawl away from the hole cause Leach was just kickin that ass. Ravens found out how to really close games once cam got fired, it would be nice to bring him back to see that.




  15. #345

    Re: Goodbye Vonta Leach

    Every team's defense has soft spots and Leach supports a smash mouth power running game. I can see him finishing games and used more on teams the ground game is churning out yards. He's a hammer that's an addition to a tool belt. There will be games he gets fewer snaps. It's a luxury to have him available to take the heart out of a defense.




Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Russell Street Report Website Design by D3Corp Ocean City Maryland