Anyone remember this guy? Former backup QB, Cullen Finnerty, that had brief stint with Ravens is missing

[MinnesotaRaven]

How about no helmets? I am being dead serious. I wonder what the rate of concussions with football players is compared against rugby players?

I don't disagree with that statement. It would change the game for sure. More missing teeth and cuts, etc. but all minor compared to the concussions.

I wonder if there is a study that compares the rate of concussions? There is so much other info to bring into a study like tat too... Longevity of a player, do concussions start at early age in rugby like football, do Rugby players hide concussions, are concussions as severe, do they take as many hits per play/per game... all good questions.

I also think that the NFL is doing the best they can to make changes without upsetting the game (Although, I think adding more games is the stupidest thing in the world). But they changed some rules and let it settle. Once we get used to the change and they just become part of the game, we forget about the old way as fans. Maybe in the next 20 years we will be watching a new game and slowly forgetting the old game as we grow older and newer generations of players and fans evolve.

[Ravenswintitle]

I completely agree with you but when something bad happens the reaction by many is to find someone they can sue. I'm not saying that will happen here but I'm sure the school is worried about it which is why they are making these public comments.

No doubt it's the liability concerns.

It just seems that as soon as someone mentions 'concussion' then there is a rush to judgement - yep that's the problem. When we have no medical opinion at this point. Same with guys like Titus Young. One family member says 'mental issue' and all of the sudden he is forgiven of anything because he must not be right. A retiree having a senior moment is now classified as having a mental issue. Sometimes these things can be crutches or just excuses to sue. I am withholding judgment here until the medical conclusion (or opinion) is offered.

[MinnesotaRaven]

Would a Gross Autopsy show hypothermia? I know they haven't mentioned it as a possibility, but it was unseasonably cold last weekend across the east and midwest. I'm from that area of Michigan and it can drop into the 30's at night. If he got wet, was unprepared and had no shelter he could have possibly (unlikely) died from exposure. The said they found him under "heavy foliage"... what does that mean? Was he buried under a pile of leaves or was he under a heavily canopied area of trees?

[Shas]

On the other hand it is easy for people outside the football community to speculate and connect a medical condition, or in this case, cause of death, to concussions. I think it's always wise to step back and get ALL of the information before making conclusions. Hopefully the medical community can determine cause of death in this case.

That is 100% correct.

But I think it's noteworthy to see that teammates and coaches didn't just say, hey, it's a little early to be drawing that conclusion. They seem to almost be circling the wagons in how they are saying they are "pissed" and "infuriated" by suggestions (by the family no less) that concussions had anything to do with this. It just struck me as an odd reaction.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it. Maybe it's just the stress of losing someone they were close to.

[Shas]

How about no helmets? I am being dead serious. I wonder what the rate of concussions with football players is compared against rugby players?

Me too.

I've also seen suggestions that football goes back to playing without facemasks.

The thinking is that players would be less apt to lead with their heads if their faces were exposed, but that they'd still have a helmet to protect the cranium.

[Ravenswintitle]

That is 100% correct.

But I think it's noteworthy to see that teammates and coaches didn't just say, hey, it's a little early to be drawing that conclusion. They seem to almost be circling the wagons in how they are saying they are "pissed" and "infuriated" by suggestions (by the family no less) that concussions had anything to do with this. It just struck me as an odd reaction.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it. Maybe it's just the stress of losing someone they were close to.

Or maybe they're right

[lowrider]

But I think it's noteworthy to see that teammates and coaches didn't just say, hey, it's a little early to be drawing that conclusion. They seem to almost be circling the wagons in how they are saying they are "pissed" and "infuriated" by suggestions (by the family no less) that concussions had anything to do with this. It just struck me as an odd reaction.

I think there is allot of raw emotions flowing right now from his teammates, but I tend to lean to their opinions on this. I mean they should know if he had concussions or not. He won 3 championships as the QB and played in 55 games in a 4 year career. How many concussions could he have suffered?

[Shas]

Or maybe they're right

I think there is allot of raw emotions flowing right now from his teammates, but I tend to lean to their opinions on this. I mean they should know if he had concussions or not. He won 3 championships as the QB and played in 55 games in a 4 year career. How many concussions could he have suffered?

The people in the program would certainly know a lot more about what he experienced there than you or I would. That's for sure.

But how qualified are they, really, to comment on any medical issues he may have experienced? I had previously suggested that hiding a concussion (or many) from everyone would not be entirely unusual, so maybe they aren't qualified to comment on what really happened to him. We'll know soon enough who's right.

I'm not suggesting that there is any evidence that concussions occurred and we should jump to that conclusion. But what I am suggesting is that you don't dismiss the possibility that they occurred just because his teammates and coaches claim they didn't.

I'm also saying that the nature of their denials (angry) makes me less comfortable accepting their comments as the final word.

I think we've started to see enough mounting evidence that the football world has its collective head in the sand when it comes to confronting concussions (no pun intended). So I'm automatically skeptical when it comes to these kneejerk denials. But I am open minded enough to understand that speculation is just that and we need to wait for more information in this case.

[wickedsolo]

How about no helmets? I am being dead serious. I wonder what the rate of concussions with football players is compared against rugby players?

This is actually a rather salient perspective. Rugby is also a violent sport, but Rugby players don't "lead with their heads" when they go to make a tackle. It does happen, and so do injuries, but more often than not rugby players are taught to wrap up with their shoulders and tackle around the waist (as per my understanding, which is minimal...so please correct me if I am wrong).

[wickedsolo]

On the helmet issue... While there may be helmets available that are better than the others most frequently used by NFLers, like WickedSolo mentioned (and that's a start). But there is NOTHING any helmet can do to stop the deceleration of the brain in the cranial cavity that is involved in many concussions. The brain is in a bag of fluid and keeps moving when the body stops moving.... until it hits the inside of the skull, bruising it. Maybe there are future improvements to help shield the impact, but you can;t stop the movement. Could it be that even indirect impact can damage the brain, (i.e. a huge hit to the upper body, causing massive impact and deceleration? I don't know. I don't think you can't stop concussions unless you stop the game, as we have come to know it.

I completely agree with you.

Concussions are going to happen in the game of football. However, there are things that the NFL can mandate to at least minimize (as much as possible) the frequency. It starts with the equipment and how it is used. Cloth chin straps that some players don't even buckle (a la Brett Favre), thin mouthpieces, and properly-fitted helmets should be addressed from the NFL. They want to fine people for head-hunting, ok, why not fine players for improper equipment use? I mean, they want to claim they care about the health and welfare of NFL players during and post career, but look at how long it took them to mandate thigh and knee pads.

[sailorsam]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/09/sp...ref=gregbishop

good column on CFinn
(he's my avatar)

[lobachevsky]

Good find, sailorsam.

Wow. The striking thing here is that you can't really start to establish how something like this could happen until you figure out what happened--& so far they don't seem to have a clue as to what happened within his body to cause his death.