Anyone remember this guy? Former backup QB, Cullen Finnerty, that had brief stint with Ravens is missing

[Shas]

It's interesting to see that former players and coaches are vehemently denying that there were ever any concussion issues with Finnerty at GVSU. The quotes from them reveal they are genuinely pissed that anyone (the family even) is jumping to this conclusion.

Who knows?

Are they right? Or is this just another example of the mentality within the football community that where they deny that concussions are an issue?

[GOTA]

It's interesting to see that former players and coaches are vehemently denying that there were ever any concussion issues with Finnerty at GVSU. The quotes from them reveal they are genuinely pissed that anyone (the family even) is jumping to this conclusion.

Who knows?

Are they right? Or is this just another example of the mentality within the football community that where they deny that concussions are an issue?

They're worried about lawsuits and should be

[BcRaven]

... The NFL has taken their sweet time with making protective gear mandatory and correct me if I'm wrong, but it has been within the past 2 years that knee and thigh pads became mandatory and I'm not even sure if mouthpieces are mandatory (I think they are). However, there are a number of players that don't use multi-strap chin straps with a hard shell on the chin (Aaron Rogers comes to mind) and having a properly fitting helmet with a snug/secure chin strap that is correctly used is something that can assist in preventing head trauma...

wicked, I'm sure you know much more about the subject than I do, so I'm playing Devil's advocate here. If a player thinks a knee and/or thigh pad will keep him from injury, or a mouthpiece and multi-chin strap will do the same, then why don't they ask for it/them? I'm sure their team would supply them with that protective equipment if they wanted it. NFL players are grown men, even if they're not all emotionally adult, so if they don't want the extra weight to slow them down, and are willing to risk injury, why should the NFL play BIG DADDY? ... Bc

[JohnBKistler]

wicked, I'm sure you know much more about the subject than I do, so I'm playing Devil's advocate here. If a player thinks a knee and/or thigh pad will keep him from injury, or a mouthpiece and multi-chin strap will do the same, then why don't they ask for it/them? I'm sure their team would supply them with that protective equipment if they wanted it. NFL players are grown men, even if they're not all emotionally adult, so if they don't want the extra weigh to slow them down, and are willing to risk injury, why should the NFL play BIG DADDY? ... Bc

That is one of the problems right there...you can mandate certain equipment...as well as certain policies about how to check for concussion symptoms and how to take players out and keep them out...but 2 big problems:

First, players will be less likely to report concussion-like symptoms if it means he will miss playing time.

Second, coaches, in the heat of the game, are less likely to pull their star players (see Colt McCoy).

You have to change the culture first.

[Ravenswintitle]

They're worried about lawsuits and should be

From all reports, he never had a problem in college. When he played IFL he is quoted as saying "ive never been hit that hard in my life". He also played in Europe.

The reason some ex-teammates and friends are adamant about these comments by the family, is because they never heard them before the death. And the picture they paint is of a very happy, family man.

[lowrider]

Are they right? Or is this just another example of the mentality within the football community that where they deny that concussions are an issue?

On the other hand it is easy for people outside the football community to speculate and connect a medical condition, or in this case, cause of death, to concussions. I think it's always wise to step back and get ALL of the information before making conclusions. Hopefully the medical community can determine cause of death in this case.

[Shas]

You have to change the culture first.

And I'm suggesting that we're seeing evidence of the cultural problem inside football when Finnerty's former teammates and coaches immediately bristle at the suggestion that he accumulated concussions while at GVSU that eventually led to his death less than a decade later.

Perhaps they are right to be pissed that anyone is proffering this theory in the immediate aftermath of his death, before any real evidence is presented.

Or, perhaps they doth protest too much.

GOTA suggested that lawsuits could come into play and that's why they are quick to stomp on this theory.

Perhaps, for the coaches, I guess I could see that. Although I'd guess this would be an issue more so from the college administrators, who haven't chimed in yet that I'm aware of.

And what about the players he played with, why would they be so annoyed by the suggestion that concussions in college created mental issues from Finnerty later in life? Certainly they can't fear lawsuits.

Perhaps we're seeing the stigma of mental illness at work here. Are "lughead" football players unwilling to accept mental illness as a legitimate injury in the same way they'd be willing to listen to immediate conjecture that he suffered a heart attack?

Or, perhaps we're seeing some form of survivor guilt where the guys who played with Finnerty and coached him at GVSU don't want to face the possibility that the thing they all loved so much could have led to this.

Perhaps that is your explanation as to why the football community is so reluctant to embrace equipment changes. Perhaps they are simply in denial that the thing they love so much could hurt them so badly.

[Shas]

From all reports, he never had a problem in college. When he played IFL he is quoted as saying "ive never been hit that hard in my life". He also played in Europe.

The only inkling I've seen are a number of people who saw him play in college talking about how he played quarterback like a linebacker and liked to deliver a hit before a defender hit him.

Pretty scant evidence that he experienced head trauma.

But there is always the possibility that he hid concussions from coaches and teammates so he could stay on the field, which we know is a dangerous thing to do. It would make sense that the teammates would deny concussion issues if he hid them, and it would make sense that hiding them led to more severe effects. And it would make sense that it would be easier to hide them at a Division II program.

[GOTA]

From all reports, he never had a problem in college. When he played IFL he is quoted as saying "ive never been hit that hard in my life". He also played in Europe.

The reason some ex-teammates and friends are adamant about these comments by the family, is because they never heard them before the death. And the picture they paint is of a very happy, family man.

I completely agree with you but when something bad happens the reaction by many is to find someone they can sue. I'm not saying that will happen here but I'm sure the school is worried about it which is why they are making these public comments.

[MinnesotaRaven]

On the helmet issue... While there may be helmets available that are better than the others most frequently used by NFLers, like WickedSolo mentioned (and that's a start). But there is NOTHING any helmet can do to stop the deceleration of the brain in the cranial cavity that is involved in many concussions. The brain is in a bag of fluid and keeps moving when the body stops moving.... until it hits the inside of the skull, bruising it. Maybe there are future improvements to help shield the impact, but you can;t stop the movement. Could it be that even indirect impact can damage the brain, (i.e. a huge hit to the upper body, causing massive impact and deceleration? I don't know. I don't think you can't stop concussions unless you stop the game, as we have come to know it.

[JohnBKistler]

But there is always the possibility that he hid concussions from coaches and teammates so he could stay on the field, which we know is a dangerous thing to do. It would make sense that the teammates would deny concussion issues if he hid them, and it would make sense that hiding them led to more severe effects. And it would make sense that it would be easier to hide them at a Division II program.

It is purely speculation that is the case here, but it is not without merit. And that issue - of players (and coaching staffs) - in denial is a huge issue. The only way I can think of preventing it is having players pass base-line concussion tests (administered by independent 3rd parties) before every game and full-contact practices. Even then, you don't address the player that "gets his bell rung" on the opening kick-off but "mans up" and continues playing for the rest of the game.

[JohnBKistler]

On the helmet issue... While there may be helmets available that are better than the others most frequently used by NFLers, like WickedSolo mentioned (and that's a start). But there is NOTHING any helmet can do to stop the deceleration of the brain in the cranial cavity that is involved in many concussions. The brain is in a bag of fluid and keeps moving when the body stops moving.... until it hits the inside of the skull, bruising it. Maybe there are future improvements to help shield the impact, but you can;t stop the movement. Could it be that even indirect impact can damage the brain, (i.e. a huge hit to the upper body, causing massive impact and deceleration? I don't know. I don't think you can't stop concussions unless you stop the game, as we have come to know it.

How about no helmets? I am being dead serious. I wonder what the rate of concussions with football players is compared against rugby players?