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  1. #1
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    Boy Scouts End Ban on Openly Gay Members



    But leaves the ban on gay scout masters in place?

    Doesn't make sense in the least. It's a good start and a step in the right direction IMO but to stop short seems odd at best.

    Thoughts?

    Also, does anyone know the Girl Scouts stance on homosexuality? My wife and I are all about getting our daughter involved but not if they ban gay members.
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  2. #2
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    It's a bit wishy washy with the Girl Scouts. They say that they do not discriminate. I personally view their policy as kind of their own version of "Don't ask don't tell." See the following article: http://womensenews.org/story/lesbian...e#.UaDf85G9KSM

    My interpretation is that you're allowed to be gay/lesbian but you're not allowed to display any kind of sexuality, so for me that's a lot like don't ask don't tell. They don't come out and say it that way, of course.

    Quote: We do not permit the advocacy or promotion of a personal lifestyle or sexual orientation," Evans added. "These are private matters for girls and their families to address. Girl Scout volunteers and staff must at all times serve as appropriate role models for girls."

    What does that mean to you? Does public display of your homosexual relationship, nothing sexual mind you but just the publicly visible knowledge that you have a homosexual relationship, count as "promotion" of that lifestyle?

    Quote: ...we do not recruit lesbians as a group. We have firm standards relating to appropriate conduct. We do not permit sexual display of any sort by our members."

    There is room for interpretation in all of these quotes. But from what I gather, you can be in a homosexual relationship, live with your partner, and be an obvious co-parent with a member of the same sex/gender... But you can't be seen kissing, or hugging or probably even holding hands without it breaking that policy. It all depends on how strictly they want to follow the letter of the law that they have prescribed there. They have left it open in my opinion where if they wanted to use a person's sexuality against them they might be able to do so... But at the same time they are trying to say they won't discriminate against you for same. Just as long as you are careful not to display anything "sexual".

    Note that the literature doesn't say anything about "while at Girl Scouts functions" or the like. That means to me that if you are on a date with your partner in public and someone from the organization witnesses you, they might be able to hold that against you according to the policy as stated. That I don't like.




  3. #3
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    In ok with that interpretation.

    Just as I wouldn't want displays of heterosexual sexuality, I wouldn't want displays of homosexual sexuality.

    Displays of sexuality don't have a place in that environment, particularly with children involved.
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  4. #4

    Re: Boy Scouts End Ban on Openly Gay Members

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    But leaves the ban on gay scout masters in place?

    Doesn't make sense in the least. It's a good start and a step in the right direction IMO but to stop short seems odd at best.

    Thoughts?

    Also, does anyone know the Girl Scouts stance on homosexuality? My wife and I are all about getting our daughter involved but not if they ban gay members.
    Well, it is certainly a parent's right to choose or not to choose whether their child participates in an organization.

    My son is in the Scouts, and it has been an incredible experience. The stuff he is taught, or more accurately, the stuff he learns via trial-and-error in a controlled environment I find to be invaluable.

    I think that people that single-focus on this one issue and then throw out all the good that Scouting does in young boys' lives is somewhat short-sighted and disappointing. I think that as a parent, I would be able to sit down with my son and talk about homosexuality, gay rights, and the Scout's official position and be able to allow him to participate in the latter without compromising his open-mindedness on the former. But I think that is a very private, family matter, and I am certainly not telling other people how to parent their children or that one decision is better than the other.

    Gay rights have made incredible advances in just the last 10 years. They should take the current decision by a hundred-year-old, faith-based organization as a clear "win" and continue to work toward more advancements. Bashing scouts for not fully accepting their positions is short-sighted, imo.

    One question I do have is how the Youth Protection policy would be enforced with an openly gay scout in either Boys Scouts or Venturing Scouts. I suspect that whatever polices in place for the co-ed Venturing Scouts would apply to a homosexual boy scout? I wonder if a parent of a girl in Venturing Scouts would be ok with a homosexual boy scout using the same shower, bathroom and sleeping quarters? That is a tough one...but I guess it all goes into learning life's lessons.

    EDIT: Check that. I assume an openly gay Boy Scout would use the same facilities as a hetero Boy Scout. The real challenge would be with 2 (or more) homosexual scouts in the same troop. That is tough one because not only does a lot of effort go into to segregating the boys from the adults (men), but also segregating the boys from the girls on occasions when they are together (like Venturing Scouts). Like I said, it will be interesting to see how this plays out...
    Last edited by JohnBKistler; 05-25-2013 at 12:06 PM.




  5. #5
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    Re: Boy Scouts End Ban on Openly Gay Members

    Gladd praised the land mark decision and so did OBY and people still bitch. I thought it was SCOTUS decision when I saw the headlines but they voted on it themselves at the council level and it passed with 60% of the vote.

    The downside is there will be an exodus of members not to mention millions of
    dollars from the church. Some predict 1 of 10 scouts
    will leave or be pulled by their parents. There are about 25M scouts world wide.

    An Assemblies of God spokesman predicted a mass exodus while the South Baptist
    Convention expressed opposition. They believed the Scouts succumbed to political
    correctness. For them is not single mindness but the BSA was founded on biblical
    principles of God and honor.

    Baptist Press predicts a loss of 200,000 members and $30M.

    http://bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=40372

    Out of 100,000 troops in US, about 70% are sponsored by the Church and most of that
    consists of conservative churches. The rest are liberal churches.

    Several churches in Delaware dropped sponsorship during the debate and before the vote. They told troops they had sponsored for 40 years to find a new one.

    The gay scout could be like the General who won the battle but lost all his men
    fighting the war. He had no one to control what he had won.

    Oh and speaking of the Church, it was the first sponsor of BSA when it was formed in the
    early 20th century and keeping in tune with political correctness it will have to change
    is stance and no longer denounce atheists and agnostics.

    The BSA takes a similar prohibitive stance toward both children and adults who are atheist and agnostic, citing its "Duty to God" principle.

    NO MAS!
    ___________________________
    The group GLAAD praised the Scouts' decision:

    "Today's vote is a significant victory for gay youth across the nation and a clear indication that the Boy Scouts' ban on gay adult leaders will also inevitably end," said GLAAD spokesperson Rich Ferraro. "The Boy Scouts of America heard from religious leaders, corporate sponsors and so many Scouting families who want an end to discrimination against gay people, and GLAAD will continue this work with those committed to equality in Scouting until gay parents and adults are able to participate."

    http://www.gpb.org/news/2013/05/23/b...eed+(GPB+News)
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 05-27-2013 at 01:35 AM.
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  6. #6

    Re: Boy Scouts End Ban on Openly Gay Members

    I thought the whole point was to allow gay scout masters? I mean how many openly gay pre-pubesent children are there? Is that even possible before sex hormones are active? Its a step but i dont really see the point.
    -JAB




  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    I thought the whole point was to allow gay scout masters? I mean how many openly gay pre-pubesent children are there? Is that even possible before sex hormones are active? Its a step but i dont really see the point.
    Agreed.
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  8. #8
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    Re: Boy Scouts End Ban on Openly Gay Members

    The first Eagle Scout was 17 years old and received the award in 1911, so hi school boys can be
    gay. Famous Eagle scouts were President Ford, Sam Shepherd, Steve Breyer of the Supreme Court, Robert Gates-Sec of Defense, Sam Wallmart, Steven Spielberg - famous movie producer,
    the current mayor of NY and millions more.

    The Cub Scouts are for the little guys and there are the Girl Scouts and Brownies for
    females. My sister was in both.

    I was in both the Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts and learned a lot of things like arts and crafts. I still have the stuff I made as a Cub scout. The camping trips were awesome where we learned to start camp fires w/o matches and fish w/o rods and bait.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 05-27-2013 at 08:56 PM.
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  9. #9

    Re: Boy Scouts End Ban on Openly Gay Members

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    I thought the whole point was to allow gay scout masters? I mean how many openly gay pre-pubesent children are there? Is that even possible before sex hormones are active? Its a step but i dont really see the point.
    Boys can be in Scouts up until their 18th birthday. Girls/women and boys/men can be in Venturing Scouts up until their 21st birthday. A lot of thought goes into the policies of not only ensuring that the adults and the boys/girls are safely separated, but also a ensuring a safe environment between boys and girls on those occasions when they are together. Parents put their children into scouting to learn a variety of life skills: sexual discovery and exploration (whether it is straight or gay) is not one of them.

    Not sure who's "point" to which you are referring, but for a 100-year-old, faith-based organization to take this step is significant, imo. Nobody is claiming, at least that I know of, that this is in anyway a final step.

    One last point. Many Scout troops are hosted by churches. They need to balance the rapidly changing norms of society in general versus the practical implications of not conflicting with whatever policies are in place with their hosting organization - which may also be working through their own policy changes with regards to homosexual members and leaders.




  10. #10
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    Re: Boy Scouts End Ban on Openly Gay Members

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    Boys can be in Scouts up until their 18th birthday. Girls/women and boys/men can be in Venturing Scouts up until their 21st birthday. A lot of thought goes into the policies of not only ensuring that the adults and the boys/girls are safely separated, but also a ensuring a safe environment between boys and girls on those occasions when they are together. Parents put their children into scouting to learn a variety of life skills: sexual discovery and exploration (whether it is straight or gay) is not one of them.

    Not sure who's "point" to which you are referring, but for a 100-year-old, faith-based organization to take this step is significant, imo. Nobody is claiming, at least that I know of, that this is in anyway a final step.

    One last point. Many Scout troops are hosted by churches. They need to balance the rapidly changing norms of society in general versus the practical implications of not conflicting with whatever policies are in place with their hosting organization - which may also be working through their own policy changes with regards to homosexual members and leaders.
    Well said, John
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  11. #11

    Re: Boy Scouts End Ban on Openly Gay Members

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    Boys can be in Scouts up until their 18th birthday. Girls/women and boys/men can be in Venturing Scouts up until their 21st birthday. A lot of thought goes into the policies of not only ensuring that the adults and the boys/girls are safely separated, but also a ensuring a safe environment between boys and girls on those occasions when they are together. Parents put their children into scouting to learn a variety of life skills: sexual discovery and exploration (whether it is straight or gay) is not one of them.

    Not sure who's "point" to which you are referring, but for a 100-year-old, faith-based organization to take this step is significant, imo. Nobody is claiming, at least that I know of, that this is in anyway a final step.

    One last point. Many Scout troops are hosted by churches. They need to balance the rapidly changing norms of society in general versus the practical implications of not conflicting with whatever policies are in place with their hosting organization - which may also be working through their own policy changes with regards to homosexual members and leaders.
    so they were actively kicking out kids who were in scouts and ended up realizing they were gay later on? because ive heard mostly reports of kicking out scout masters or not allowing in the first place but im not sure ive heard of stories about the kids themselves. not to say they dont exist, but not with the regularity of the scout masters which ive seen.

    Like I said, its a step in the right direction but i dont see the point in saying its ok to be gay and be in scouts but you cant lead those same scouts. I get what youre saying, and its probably valid points when talking about the church (which ill say i dont agree with/understand a great deal), but it seems it should be an all or nothing deal to me. if youre going to allow young gays, why not older ones? Im not sure of the reasoning behind it at that point.
    -JAB




  12. #12
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    Re: Boy Scouts End Ban on Openly Gay Members

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    if youre going to allow young gays, why not older ones? Im not sure of the reasoning behind it at that point.
    I think the reasoning is obvious. As John pointed out, you're asking a lot of churches to swallow this. It's best to tred lightly and take an incrimentalism approach rather than force feed a huge cultural shift down the throats of an entity that's historically resistant to change.

    Go too far too fast and you're going to get more resistence.
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