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  1. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Very sad and very disturbing.

    This has my blood boiling on a number of fronts. First, I share your concern, leach, about how anyone an come into your country and our country relatively unchecked.

    Second, as I listened to witness interviews, there was a common theme amongst them of "There was nothing we could do". I am very pro 2nd Amendment and this may have had a different outcome in the states, particularly in Texas. GB has gone to the extreme, IMO, with gun control and this is one of the byproducts. Citizens simply have no way of stopping something like this. Faith is placed on the police, not all of whom are armed, to stop this. Thankfully, the armed police got there and took the necessary action to stop these guys but it was a little too late for the dead man.

    Third, the cavalier attitude and brazeness of the man in the video is haunting. It takes a special type of psycho to do what he did and then be so in your face about it.
    I dunno, correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like there was only one victim and then the police shot them down, right? If I read it correctly, then I don't see how it would have gone any differently (or at any rate, any *better*) in America. How would the outcome have been different in Texas?

    1. Killer knocks off first victim... How would that have been prevented? The killer has all sorts of advantage when the attack begins, including element of surprise and control of a situation that will soon be a panic state for everyone else.

    2. Killer doesn't record any more kills and is stopped by law enforcement. That's about as good as you can get after part 1 occurs.

    Or am I missing something?




  2. #14
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    Re: British soldiers hacked to death in London by muslim extremists

    Quote Originally Posted by callahan09 View Post
    I dunno, correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like there was only one victim and then the police shot them down, right? If I read it correctly, then I don't see how it would have gone any differently (or at any rate, any *better*) in America. How would the outcome have been different in Texas?

    1. Killer knocks off first victim... How would that have been prevented? The killer has all sorts of advantage when the attack begins, including element of surprise and control of a situation that will soon be a panic state for everyone else.

    2. Killer doesn't record any more kills and is stopped by law enforcement. That's about as good as you can get after part 1 occurs.

    Or am I missing something?
    You missed the "there was nothing we could do" attitude from the bystanders. If you had a gun and saw that happen what would you do?

    I would say as good as you could get would be a) Victim 1 being armed and able to defend himself or b) bystander is armed steps up and double taps a couple into the terrorist skull before he could start and or finish HACKING off the soldiers head..
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  3. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by callahan09 View Post
    I dunno, correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like there was only one victim and then the police shot them down, right? If I read it correctly, then I don't see how it would have gone any differently (or at any rate, any *better*) in America. How would the outcome have been different in Texas?
    By my count, I see about 15-20 people standing around. The street looks very busy and the articles I've read say this street was busy and their were numerous witnesses. In Texas, 1 in 10 per capita are carrying a firearm at any given time. So going my probability, 2 people could have been in the crowd armed and capable of helping.

    Quote Originally Posted by callahan09 View Post
    1. Killer knocks off first victim... How would that have been prevented? The killer has all sorts of advantage when the attack begins, including element of surprise and control of a situation that will soon be a panic state for everyone else.
    The victim himself could have been armed and not necessarily everyone else. The attackers first struck him with a car, pinning him against a tree. There's opportunity right there to take out a weapon and defend himself. Then they drug him into the street before stabbing him. Again, another opportunity for someone to pull out a weapon and end things right there.

    Quote Originally Posted by callahan09 View Post
    2. Killer doesn't record any more kills and is stopped by law enforcement. That's about as good as you can get after part 1 occurs.

    Or am I missing something?
    You're missing that it took 20 minutes for armed police to arrive to the scene. Maybe the stabbings could have been stopped in time to where the victim lived. Instead, the attackers had free reign to damn near behead the victim.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  4. #16

    Re: British soldiers hacked to death in London by muslim extremists

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Totally share your opinion on this Houston. I am a huge fan of how states such as Texas run things, and I wish we adopted the same laws on gun control etc... sadly, Britain is obsessed with human rights, and letting people like this get away with anything. I have no doubt that these morons will be going to a special institute of some kind and away from the normal prisons where they'd literally get eliminated in.
    So you want England to deregulate businesses, destroy the environment, rule out zoning laws, and want your leader to want to succeed from the home nation TWICE?

    I'm on the fence in regards to guns, but trust me, Texas isn't exactly a Utopian society. Maybe Houston is.

    Also Britain is obsessed with human rights? Oh, I'm sorry, I never thought anyone would want their human rights to be infringed by the government. Or is it alright for infringing other people's rights by the government as long as it is acting on your behalf? What happens when you're targeted? Will you be obsessing about human rights then?

    Edit: Now let's be clear. I am not supporting these extremists at any point. What they have done is horrible and should be treated as such. But I am against blindly waving a club around and looking for blood. They should receive a fair trial (I don't know how British court system works) and if guilty (do I think they're guilty? Yeah, but a trial should be rendered nonetheless) should receive a punishment that befits such an act. I don't like mob justice, which so many seem to look for.
    Last edited by Rookie; 05-23-2013 at 06:47 PM.




  5. #17
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    Lets get back to the topic. I'm guilty of the hijack as well.

    There's an open gun thread and if you want to debate the merits of Texas, I'd be more than happy to in another thread.

    Back on point, I must admit, I don't know much about British law. Are the courts lenient?
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  6. #18

    Re: British soldiers hacked to death in London by muslim extremists

    the dude was run over by a car and then beheaded. how the hell is being armed going to help him defend himself in that scenario? This outcome would be no different had he been armed, or the bystanders.
    -JAB




  7. #19
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    Re: British soldiers hacked to death in London by muslim extremists

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    the dude was run over by a car and then beheaded. how the hell is being armed going to help him defend himself in that scenario? This outcome would be no different had he been armed, or the bystanders.
    Yes, in the reader's digest version being armed wouldn't have made a difference...
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  8. #20
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    Re: British soldiers hacked to death in London by muslim extremists

    Ahem ....

    Like I said, there's a thread for a gun debate open already. Lets be fair to leach and get this back on topic.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  9. #21

    Re: British soldiers hacked to death in London by muslim extremists

    Quote Originally Posted by callahan09 View Post
    I dunno, correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like there was only one victim...
    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    I would say as good as you could get would be a) Victim 1 being armed and able to defend himself or b) bystander is armed steps up and double taps a couple into the terrorist skull before he could start and or finish HACKING off the soldiers head..
    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    The victim himself could have been armed and not necessarily everyone else.
    Changing the discussion point.

    Let me be totally clear, I am not JUSTIFYING this act in any way, shape or form. But...

    Does anyone find it somewhat illogical to refer to this as "terrorism" or that the deceased was a "victim"? Was he not an active duty British military soldier? Did not the attackers clearly state why they targeted him, and in their actions afterward did not target the many civilian bystanders (even going as far as apologizing to the women bystanders that witnessed the act)?

    To me, this looks like an act, and resulting casualties, from the "war on terror".

    Thoughts?




  10. #22
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    I believe soldiers can also be victims.

    Ft Hood, for example.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  11. #23

    Re: British soldiers hacked to death in London by muslim extremists

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    I believe soldiers can also be victims.

    Ft Hood, for example.
    Another, at least in my mind, act-of-war, and not an act-of-"terror".

    I find it curious how these types of attacks are termed "terrorisism", with all the outrage and shock that word implies, when it happens to the West. But yet attacks with similar degrees of violence by the West are deemed legitimate military actions.

    What's the difference?

    (Point of acknowledgement: My post, and curiosity, was spurred by this column: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...orism-blowback)

    In my mind, it raised some interesting questions that I wanted to talk about and debate here.
    Last edited by JohnBKistler; 05-28-2013 at 09:45 AM.




  12. #24

    Re: British soldiers hacked to death in London by muslim extremists

    He was ran over with a car then attacked with a meat cleaver. They weren't on a battlefield, they were in the suburbs.

    That's the difference right there. The terrorist turn their own countries into war zones. The U.S. has made tragic mistakes in the war on terror where innocent people have been killed. Terrorist target innocent people and rejoice in their suffering.
    "A moron, a rapist, and a Pittsburgh Steeler walk into a bar. He sits down and says, Hi Im Ben may I have a drink please?
    ProFootballMock




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