OTA Tidbits

**Ravenswintitle** · 06-03-2013, 08:35 AM

Can he still poke a ball out of the opponents hand like he did in the SB? He can lose weight between now and August.

**Stealthbirds80** · 06-03-2013, 08:43 AM

Upshaw will be fine. Who knows what he is going through personally, so I'm not going to judge this weight issue, but I figure that he will get down by training camp.

Besides, I'm not sure this would affect his play all that much.

**Paintballguy** · 06-03-2013, 08:45 AM

Losing 15 lbs is nothing especially for a pro football player.

**Captain Silver** · 06-03-2013, 08:46 AM

I went from 220 in January to 170 in the beginning of May, round 169-172 given the day. I was a heavy lifter, carried muscle, then let myself go because of injury and surgery, but once healed, end of February, I got full doctor clearance to work out. I am no NFL player with the $, trainers, or facilities at my disposal they have, but IF any of these guys has the will, there will be a way.

I think Upshaw would make a great DE.

**srobert96** · 06-03-2013, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I'm not willing to step out on a limb and say that Upshaw is lazy. Nor am I really willing to say that Cody is lazy. I just think that maybe they aren't being smart about their skill set?

Cody went from around 360lbs to like 335-340lbs in an off-season. You don't do that by being lazy. I think he wasn't going about things the correct way though, because with that drop in weight he lost a lot of his raw strength, which IMO was his best asset. Apparently, he was shedding weight to gain endurance so he could be more than 2-down player, but that backfired. Whoever is coaching him needs to get him back up to the 345-355lb range because he'll never be an every down player. He's just not built that way and he needs to accept that. There is a place for him on this team and I'd hope he could become the type of player that Gilbert Brown was for the Packers or even Jamaal Jackson towards the end of his career in San Diego.

Regarding Upshaw, he is always going to have a weight issue. He's thick and massively built. He has enormous shoulders, arms, and a massive lower body. I wouldn't say he is really "fat" though. When you carry that much muscle mass, you are bound to carry an increased level of water weight, so his 285lbs can be dealt with fairly quickly and easily. I don't think that Upshaw will ever be that swift 255-260lb pass rusher that we'd all like him to be, but as long as the Ravens have guys like Doom and (hopefully) Simon, I don't think they'll really need Upshaw to be a 10-12 sack per year player. JJ was never that kind of a linebacker and he was an integral part of this defense for a long time. Upshaw's strengths are his natural strength, rip moves, and stopping the run. If I were the coaching staff I would be focusing on making him the best (which he was one of the best last year) edge-setting OLB in the game.

Showing up overweight in your first two seasons is lazy. Yes it is not being smart but it is also lazy. When you have a gut you are fat. No OLB should have a gut like a Dlineman. He failed his conditioning test last year and now he his back at the same weight with a gut. If he were on the dline it would be no issue. Upshaw doesn't need to be a big sack guy but he needs to able to move otherwise he will be a liability in coverage and rushing the passer. Maybe they should move him to DE.

Maybe Cody is not lazy although he did fail his first conditioning test. Two years ago he lost too much weight. Last year he put the weight back on and did not fare that well. The only other player that I can remember not passing their conditioning test was McKinnie and we all know he is lazy. As a professional athlete if you show up out of shape you are lazy. It is not like they have another job.

**RavensQB** · 06-03-2013, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by srobert96

Showing up overweight in your first two seasons is lazy. Yes it is not being smart but it is also lazy. When you have a gut you are fat. No OLB should have a gut like a Dlineman. He failed his conditioning test last year and now he his back at the same weight with a gut. If he were on the dline it would be no issue. Upshaw doesn't need to be a big sack guy but he needs to able to move otherwise he will be a liability in coverage and rushing the passer. Maybe they should move him to DE.

Maybe Cody is not lazy although he did fail his first conditioning test. Two years ago he lost too much weight. Last year he put the weight back on and did not fare that well. The only other player that I can remember not passing their conditioning test was McKinnie and we all know he is lazy. As a professional athlete if you show up out of shape you are lazy. It is not like they have another job.

It is OTA's If he does not lose the 10-15 by training camp worry. But give this sheet a rest. Upshaw was a beast in College and had a solid rookie year. He has 3 championships under his belt. 2 College and 1 NFL. I think he knows what to do. Not to mention he had some personal issues back home.

**lobachevsky** · 06-03-2013, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Kind of hard to win games when your star QB basically goes down for an entire season and you are left with Curtis Painter and Dan Orlovsky.

IMHO it was worse than that. When has anyone ever seen an entire team more utterly dependent on the play of one person than the PM Colts?

The Irsays' offense depended on receivers being exactly where they were supposed to be when Peyton expected them there--the QB's job was to read the defense, know what would be open & get the ball there reliably. It's asking a lot for a backup to pick up from there

More to the point, the gambling, attacking Indy defense depended on that offense to give them leads to work with--and to get back in short order any points they'd give up.

Once Peyton went down the whole house of cards collapsed.

----

IMO if the Ravens' offense does well this year, Caldwell is as close to a lock as you'll eer see to get a fistful of HC offers--especially after last year's coaching carousel came very close to making a mockery of the Rooney Rule. But I think Jim will be very leery of taking a job where the talent (especially on offense) isn't there. I could see him going to a struggling young team with a talented but raw QB (or positioned to draft one fitting that description) with the aim of getting some redemption.

**wickedsolo** · 06-03-2013, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by lobachevsky

IMHO it was worse than that. When has anyone ever seen an entire team more utterly dependent on the play of one person than the PM Colts?

The Irsays' offense depended on receivers being exactly where they were supposed to be when Peyton expected them there--the QB's job was to read the defense, know what would be open & get the ball there reliably. It's asking a lot for a backup to pick up from there

More to the point, the gambling, attacking Indy defense depended on that offense to give them leads to work with--and to get back in short order any points they'd give up.

Once Peyton went down the whole house of cards collapsed.

----

IMO if the Ravens' offense does well this year, Caldwell is as close to a lock as you'll eer see to get a fistful of HC offers--especially after last year's coaching carousel came very close to making a mockery of the Rooney Rule. But I think Jim will be very leery of taking a job where the talent (especially on offense) isn't there. I could see him going to a struggling young team with a talented but raw QB (or positioned to draft one fitting that description) with the aim of getting some redemption.

:word

I don't know that I would say Caldwell is, or was...or will be, a better HC than John Harbaugh, but let's be real here...if Flacco were to miss an entire season and they had no choice but to go with Tyrod/Caleb Hanie, then I wouldn't expect to win more than a few games either. Luckily, like you pointed out, this team is not centered around Joe so much that everything would fall apart.

**Ravenswintitle** · 06-03-2013, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

:word

I don't know that I would say Caldwell is, or was...or will be, a better HC than John Harbaugh, but let's be real here...if Flacco were to miss an entire season and they had no choice but to go with Tyrod/Caleb Hanie, then I wouldn't expect to win more than a few games either. Luckily, like you pointed out, this team is not centered around Joe so much that everything would fall apart.

They had Freeney and Mathis, they still had RBs Addai and Brown, still had Dallas Clark, Austin Collie, Pierre Garcon, Reggie Wayne. If Caldwell had gone to another team we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Pats lose Brad = 11 - 5
Indy lose Manning - 2-14

Pitiful coaching job. OK I'll leave it alone now

**wickedsolo** · 06-03-2013, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

They had Freeney and Mathis, they still had RBs Addai and Brown, still had Dallas Clark, Austin Collie, Pierre Garcon, Reggie Wayne. If Caldwell had gone to another team we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Pats lose Brad = 11 - 5
Indy lose Manning - 2-14

Pitiful coaching job. OK I'll leave it alone now

Not necessarily.

If Caldwell went to the Panthers, let's say, and the Panthers did what the Ravens did, I'm sure he'd be in a number of HC conversations.

Regarding the Pats losing Brady, I don't understand why you're comparing Belichik to Caldwell. That's like comparing Chris Johnson to Eric Dickerson because they both had over 2,000 yards in a season. Belichik is one of the greats. I was merely pointing out that Caldwell was the HC on a team that was built around Peyton Manning and when he went down, everything collapsed. Sure, he can be blamed for some of that and it is a direct reason to why he was fired, but I think it is a little absurd to think that he won't get another HC gig opportunity. Furthermore, Matt Cassell, while not a great QB, has been a starting QB for several years whereas Curtis Painter and Dan Orlovsky have been career backups. I don't know that is a fair comparison either.

It wasn't a great coaching job on Caldwell's part, but as we all know too well, the coach can only be as good as their players.

**Ravenswintitle** · 06-03-2013, 01:04 PM

fair enough, not trying to sidetrack the thread again. I just do not think he will ever get a HC opportunity regardless of how the offense performs this year. There are a lot of good coaches out there who don't get a 2nd shot and if you look at Caldwell's history, it's not that impressive. He got the first shot due to Dungy.

My hope is that he can become a solid OC since it's a position he's never held before.

**TheSpiderWebb** · 06-03-2013, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

They had Freeney and Mathis, they still had RBs Addai and Brown, still had Dallas Clark, Austin Collie, Pierre Garcon, Reggie Wayne. If Caldwell had gone to another team we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Pats lose Brad = 11 - 5
Indy lose Manning - 2-14

Pitiful coaching job. OK I'll leave it alone now

Freeney and Mathis' playing styles don't work without Peyton Manning. Aside from Harrison and Wayne, would we even know the names of these receivers if Manning wasn't throwing them the ball? He has a talent for making below average WRs decent and above average WRs elite.

On the Upshaw topic, I thought he was a bit heavy even at 272. I think if he could get down to around 260-265 he would be able to move much better, and be quicker dropping into zones or covering releasing outlet receivers. Definitely a bit disappointed with his weight, because I was expecting big things from him this year. He'll probably never be a 10+ sack guy, but with work and dedication I think he could consistently put up a good bit pressure, hits, and a handful of sacks while also being an elite edge defender. He shouldn't have trouble dropping the 12-13 pounds he is overweight, and while we don't know what issues he may of been going through, I'm still a little disappointed.