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Thread: NBA playoffs

  1. #256
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    I'm looking forward to this series.

    I've always respected Duncan and his game. I would definitely like to see him get one more ring.

    Spurs are 4-0 in the finals.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  2. #257

    Re: NBA playoffs

    I don't think Duncan is going to give it to Miami much worse at all. Duncan is a much...much better match up for Bosh. They are similar in size and skill really. Duncan obviously has more tricks up his sleeve, but Miami struggled with Hibbert because he was 30-40 pounds bigger than anybody Miami could throw out there.

    The keys to this series is Parker and Lebron along with the ability of the respective benches to hit their 3's.

    2 very, very similar teams that play at similar paces, neither is a "big" team, and both have been terrific shooting the 3 ball all year.

    Should be a great series.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  3. #258
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    Re: NBA playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    I don't think Duncan is going to give it to Miami much worse at all. Duncan is a much...much better match up for Bosh. They are similar in size and skill really. Duncan obviously has more tricks up his sleeve, but Miami struggled with Hibbert because he was 30-40 pounds bigger than anybody Miami could throw out there

    The keys to this series is Parker and Lebron along with the ability of the respective benches to hit their 3's.

    2 very, very similar teams that play at similar paces, neither is a "big" team, and both have been terrific shooting the 3 ball all year.

    Should be a great series.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  4. #259

    Re: NBA playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    I don't think Duncan is going to give it to Miami much worse at all. Duncan is a much...much better match up for Bosh. They are similar in size and skill really. Duncan obviously has more tricks up his sleeve, but Miami struggled with Hibbert because he was 30-40 pounds bigger than anybody Miami could throw out there.

    The keys to this series is Parker and Lebron along with the ability of the respective benches to hit their 3's.

    2 very, very similar teams that play at similar paces, neither is a "big" team, and both have been terrific shooting the 3 ball all year.

    Should be a great series.
    his size was an issue for sure, but his ability to rebound and defend the paint was the effect of that size. Duncan can rebound and defend better than hibbert, even if he is 2" shorter and 20lbs lighter, he still has 20-25lb advantage on Bosh or anybody else on the Heat. Duncan may be similar in his ability to step out and hit jumpers but dont ignore that he can bang with the best as well, where Bosh simply cant. Hibbert averaged 22/10 and 1 block against them after averaging 12/8/2.5 all season. I expect Duncan to score roughly the same (20), rebound more and block more simply because hes a better player than Hibbert.

    Side note the teams averaged 103 and allowed 95 (heat) 96.6 (spurs). Should be a very even series.
    -JAB




  5. #260

    Re: NBA playoffs

    Bosh gained 15 pounds last summer...he and Duncan are virtually the same size. You can obviously see a huge size difference between Hibbert and Bosh...when Bosh played against Duncan this year, they looked the same size.

    Duncan is a much better matchup for Bosh and I expect Bosh to play much better and come close to whatever numbers Duncan puts up.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  6. #261
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    Re: NBA playoffs

    Bosh sure needs to play better; we shall see...
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  7. #262
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    Re: NBA playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    his size was an issue for sure, but his ability to rebound and defend the paint was the effect of that size. Duncan can rebound and defend better than hibbert, even if he is 2" shorter and 20lbs lighter, he still has 20-25lb advantage on Bosh or anybody else on the Heat. Duncan may be similar in his ability to step out and hit jumpers but dont ignore that he can bang with the best as well, where Bosh simply cant. Hibbert averaged 22/10 and 1 block against them after averaging 12/8/2.5 all season. I expect Duncan to score roughly the same (20), rebound more and block more simply because hes a better player than Hibbert.

    Side note the teams averaged 103 and allowed 95 (heat) 96.6 (spurs). Should be a very even series.
    Hibbert is also about 11 years younger. Duncan is one of the all-time greats, but there was a reason people were surprised was able to make the all NBA team this year... he's 37 and has physically declined in skills. Obviously still good but from a pure physical stand point, Hibbert > Duncan.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  8. #263

    Re: NBA playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Bosh gained 15 pounds last summer...he and Duncan are virtually the same size. You can obviously see a huge size difference between Hibbert and Bosh...when Bosh played against Duncan this year, they looked the same size.

    Duncan is a much better matchup for Bosh and I expect Bosh to play much better and come close to whatever numbers Duncan puts up.
    I just dont see it. Bosh plays soft, Duncan doesnt. I dont really care if Bosh weighed 255 and Duncan 235 its the style of play that really is the issue. part of the reason why Bosh only averaged 7 rebounds no matter who he was lining up against.
    -JAB




  9. #264

    Re: NBA playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Hibbert is also about 11 years younger. Duncan is one of the all-time greats, but there was a reason people were surprised was able to make the all NBA team this year... he's 37 and has physically declined in skills. Obviously still good but from a pure physical stand point, Hibbert > Duncan.
    theres probably some truth in that, but I think his game is better than Hibbert. So while youd think the younger larger guy would be better simply because of athletic ability, his game doesnt allow him to be. He still only put up 11.9/8.3/2.6 to duncans 17.8/9.9/2.7. I dont really care if hes older, hes still better than Hibbert or Bosh. Back to back games is where his age shows, which luckily they dont have in the finals. Any one game though, im taking Duncan, If were talking about starting a team, id differ on that. I will say the longer the series goes im sure his age will show, but with 9-10 days of rest, he probably benefited from that the most. Whether his team as a whole did or not is yet to be seen.
    -JAB




  10. #265
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    Re: NBA playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    theres probably some truth in that, but I think his game is better than Hibbert. So while youd think the younger larger guy would be better simply because of athletic ability, his game doesnt allow him to be. He still only put up 11.9/8.3/2.6 to duncans 17.8/9.9/2.7. I dont really care if hes older, hes still better than Hibbert or Bosh. Back to back games is where his age shows, which luckily they dont have in the finals. Any one game though, im taking Duncan, If were talking about starting a team, id differ on that. I will say the longer the series goes im sure his age will show, but with 9-10 days of rest, he probably benefited from that the most. Whether his team as a whole did or not is yet to be seen.
    I don't think he's better. I was speaking to the match up f Duncan/Hibbert vs. Bosh.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  11. #266

    Re: NBA playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    I don't think he's better. I was speaking to the match up f Duncan/Hibbert vs. Bosh.
    Hes old and beat up, so i concede Hibbert is healthier at this point of their careers/seasons (bosh certainly isnt at the moment). however that doesnt seem to stop him from producing better. so im not sure im following. more likely to fall off or get injured? thats probably true but until he does i cant assume he will and when hes out there, hes simply better. I dont think Hibbert is known for his footwork or speed so him being younger i dont think really falls into the equation too much as far as comparing he and Duncan, despite their 11 years difference. Duncan averaged 18/14 against Indy, Hibbert 6/8 in those same games. If his age was a factor and Hibberts youth an advantage wouldnt that have shown up in their own games?

    the only time Bosh faced Duncan this year, he didnt do poorly 23/8 (game winning 3) to duncans 17/12. I remember that game, and it wasnt typical for Bosh. probably his best game all season. I think he just happened to get hot when the team sat LBJ and Wade and played the offense through him.
    Last edited by JAB1985; 06-04-2013 at 10:53 AM.
    -JAB




  12. #267

    Re: NBA playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    I just dont see it. Bosh plays soft, Duncan doesnt. I dont really care if Bosh weighed 255 and Duncan 235 its the style of play that really is the issue. part of the reason why Bosh only averaged 7 rebounds no matter who he was lining up against.
    I don't doubt that Duncan is going to average more boards, but again, Hibbert was 3-4 inches taller and 30-40 pounds heavier than Bosh...that takes a big, big physical toll trying to guard someone that much stronger than you who does nothing but lean on you all game in the post.

    Duncan is not going to do that. He's just not...his game isn't power and it never was...it's just skill. And that meshes more with what Bosh is than Hibbert.

    I'm not saying I think Duncan is going to average 15 and 6...I think 20 and 10 is a good bet. I just see Bosh playing much better offensively when he isn't expending a ton of energy just fighting a much bigger and stronger man in Hibbert just for post position. He won't have to expend that much energy this series and I see Bosh producing much better and close to if not playing Duncan to a draw...he played much better throughout the playoffs (including a 20-19 game against another guy who is very good, but closer to Bosh's body type in Noah) until he got into what is a pure physical mismatch trying to fight Hibbert.

    IMHO, it's way to easy to just say "Duncan is better than Hibbert so therefor, Duncan is going to dominate like Hibbert". It doesn't work that way...in fact the Heat and Spurs have played each other 4 times with Bosh and Duncan both playing and Bosh has thoroughly outplayed Duncan by the tune of 25-11 to 13-10.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  13. #268
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    Re: NBA playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    Hes old and beat up, so i concede Hibbert is healthier at this point of their careers/seasons (bosh certainly isnt at the moment). however that doesnt seem to stop him from producing better. so im not sure im following. more likely to fall off or get injured? thats probably true but until he does i cant assume he will and when hes out there, hes simply better. I dont think Hibbert is known for his footwork or speed so him being younger i dont think really falls into the equation too much as far as comparing he and Duncan, despite their 11 years difference. Duncan averaged 18/14 against Indy, Hibbert 6/8 in those same games. If his age was a factor and Hibberts youth an advantage wouldnt that have shown up in their own games?

    the only time Bosh faced Duncan this year, he didnt do poorly 23/8 (game winning 3) to duncans 17/12. I remember that game, and it wasnt typical for Bosh. probably his best game all season. I think he just happened to get hot when the team sat LBJ and Wade and played the offense through him.
    JAB you're seriously over thinking this. All I am saying is Bosh should be more effective against Duncan than Hibbert because Hibbert is 26 (11 years younger), 2 inches taller and probably 20 - 30 lbs on Duncan. As a result I think Bosh should be more effective in this series. That's it.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  14. #269

    Re: NBA playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    JAB you're seriously over thinking this. All I am saying is Bosh should be more effective against Duncan than Hibbert because Hibbert is 26 (11 years younger), 2 inches taller and probably 20 - 30 lbs on Duncan. As a result I think Bosh should be more effective in this series. That's it.
    Yup.

    Some players just have huge matchup advantages over select teams. Hibbert is an incredible matchup nightmare for Miami purely due to size. Every time Indy plays Miami, he is going to kick Miami's ass in the post because they don't have anybody big and strong enough to slow him down.

    That doesn't mean that Duncan is going to enjoy the same success...they don't have anybody that is a matchup nightmare for Miami...in fact, they play a lot of small ball just like the Heat with Duncan at center.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  15. #270

    Re: NBA playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    I don't doubt that Duncan is going to average more boards, but again, Hibbert was 3-4 inches taller and 30-40 pounds heavier than Bosh...that takes a big, big physical toll trying to guard someone that much stronger than you who does nothing but lean on you all game in the post.

    Duncan is not going to do that. He's just not...his game isn't power and it never was...it's just skill. And that meshes more with what Bosh is than Hibbert.

    I'm not saying I think Duncan is going to average 15 and 6...I think 20 and 10 is a good bet. I just see Bosh playing much better offensively when he isn't expending a ton of energy just fighting a much bigger and stronger man in Hibbert just for post position. He won't have to expend that much energy this series and I see Bosh producing much better and close to if not playing Duncan to a draw...he played much better throughout the playoffs (including a 20-19 game against another guy who is very good, but closer to Bosh's body type in Noah) until he got into what is a pure physical mismatch trying to fight Hibbert.

    IMHO, it's way to easy to just say "Duncan is better than Hibbert so therefor, Duncan is going to dominate like Hibbert". It doesn't work that way...in fact the Heat and Spurs have played each other 4 times with Bosh and Duncan both playing and Bosh has thoroughly outplayed Duncan by the tune of 25-11 to 13-10.
    I Think you cherry picked your stat a little because outside that one game, he averaged 12 pts 6 rebs against the same Noah the rest of the series. His averages dropped -4 pts while rebounding has been the same in the playoffs against the likes of Noah Hibbert and Larry Sanders. Duncan has faced Gasol/Howard, Bogut and Gasol (two of the last 3 DPOY) with a -3reb change only.

    Your stats against duncan, the last 4 times they faced off are correct. Over their careers, including when Bosh was better with toronto, Duncan wins by 3pts 2reb so really you can say it a few ways. Career says one, last 4 says another, this season says another.

    I think youre undervaluing Duncans ability inside which was my main point. When called upon he has been that force to back guys down and play inside. If we dont agree on that than the point about the differences in their games is pretty much lost. As far as Hibbert wearing down Bosh more, thats probably true.

    EDIT: which if this the main point you and NC are making we agree, just disagree on the effect it had on Bosh vs his actually ability. I dont think he played that much better in the other series. so while his numbers were atrocious that series it was only marginally better the other two against smallish finesse Centers which imo, Duncan is a lot more physical/stronger than.

    Ultimately 20/10 is roughly his average and although Boshs numbers dipped in that series his playoff averages are down regardless. he averaged 13/8 the two series before his 11/4 against Indy. Im not sure he gets much better than the 12/7 hes averaged. The blue print on beating the Heat is there. Stopping Wade and Bosh is an easier task than stopping LBJ alone and no player in history has been able to win by themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    JAB you're seriously over thinking this. All I am saying is Bosh should be more effective against Duncan than Hibbert because Hibbert is 26 (11 years younger), 2 inches taller and probably 20 - 30 lbs on Duncan. As a result I think Bosh should be more effective in this series. That's it.
    I dont think he will, because i dont think hes that good of a player. Noah isnt 20lbs and 2" taller and he had a poor series against him. Larry Sanders (who is larry sanders?) isnt taller or heavier either. I just dont think Bosh is going to step up his game. whether due to injury or by design he hasnt been much of a factor these playoffs and i dont expect that to change against Duncan.
    Last edited by JAB1985; 06-04-2013 at 12:08 PM.
    -JAB




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