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  1. #61

    Re: Over the Top Stadium designs



    Quote Originally Posted by Strange Bru View Post
    Camden Yards did host the MLB All-Star game once already, back in 1994.
    1993.




  2. #62

    Re: Over the Top Stadium designs

    Quote Originally Posted by esmd View Post
    There won't even be serious discussions of a major renovation or replacement of M&T until at least 2023, and probably closer to 2028. Modern stadiums are built to last at least 25-30 years. Honestly the fact that they're talking about replacing the Georgia Dome is almost criminal. All the (probably public) money that went into building the place in 1992, and they can barely get 20 years out of it? That's unacceptable IMO and citizens of Atlanta and the State of Georgia should be irate at the prospect of wasting money on a new stadium that isn't needed. Last I checked the Falcons are doing just fine, it isn't like they can't compete because of the Georgia Dome. A renovation I can see. A whole new stadium? That's almost a criminal waste of money.
    I agree with everything you stated about the Georgia Dome. Also, replacing the perfectly fine Metrodome & RCA Dome & Texas Stadium & Kingdome. And likely major overhaul or replacement of the St Louis stadium. All were good stadiums for watching football, comfortable, easy access. Sure, there were nit-picks that could be made about them, but none were dumps like our Memorial Stadium or Cleveland's stadium, or newer but poor sightlines found in the doughnut shaped stadiums of the 60s & 70s in Philly, DC, Cincy, Pitt, St. Louis etc.

    However, I believe there will be some movement towards a major overhaul or replacement sooner than your 2023 prediction. The Ravens have always tried to stay in the middle if the pack. Ticket prices for example. Bisciotti will feel pressure when Snyder overhauls the Landover Stadium or builds a new one in DC. The cosmetic changes being made to our stadium now are too little to keep up with the major stadium upgrades being made elsewhere.
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




  3. #63
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    Re: Over the Top Stadium designs

    The only thing I'm sure of is that when the day comes that Biscotti wants a new stadium for the Ravens, he's getting it. The only questions are where and when.

    As it was mentioned, with the casino coming in, it's going to make a newly built stadium nearby nearly impossible. But they will want to because the city banks on the Harbor/Camden Yards to bring in alot in tourism dollars. I hope they find a way to do it. People coming to the city from outside the area generally rave about the Harbor/Camden Yards areas.

    With respect to when a new stadium will materialize, who knows? It's heading towards 20 years, but they're renovating it and it does look good for heading towards 20 years. It's definitely not going to be decrepit when it's replaced. It might be an issue of getting two levels of luxury boxes in there. And I do think they should expand the capacity to 75-80k seats.

    I'm guessing about 15 years. It's an expensive game, but as more new stadiums come online, only older stadiums that have a ton of history and can take major renovations onsite (Lombardi/Soldier Field come to mind) will remain. And we don't need to forget that the purpose of M&T was to build very quickly and inexpensively to get the Ravens downtown to get more revenue to pay off the expenses of the Modell move.

    M&T is a great gameday experience and it's a good looking stadium, but it's not iconic either within itself or within the larger context of where it's located. I agree with the idea of building a stadium that adds to the cityscape from the outside, the way that OP@CY has. You don't have to break the bank to do it. Good design doesn't always equate to large expense.

    I hope they don't build something that's really unique and mindblowing within itself, but looks like something that dropped in from somewhere else like the city-owned Hilton.

    In the case of OP@CY, I think we'll see another 30 years or so of renovations at the least. It is indeed iconic and there will always be a push to preserve it as long as it's standing.
    ---

    Baltimore Colts (AAFC): 1947-1950
    Baltimore Colts (NFL): 1953-1984
    Baltimore Stars (USFL): 1985
    Baltimore Colts/Stallions (CFL): 1994-1995
    Baltimore Ravens (NFL): 1996-Present




  4. #64
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    Re: Over the Top Stadium designs

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthCorvax View Post
    The only thing I'm sure of is that when the day comes that Biscotti wants a new stadium for the Ravens, he's getting it. The only questions are where and when.

    As it was mentioned, with the casino coming in, it's going to make a newly built stadium nearby nearly impossible. But they will want to because the city banks on the Harbor/Camden Yards to bring in alot in tourism dollars. I hope they find a way to do it. People coming to the city from outside the area generally rave about the Harbor/Camden Yards areas.

    With respect to when a new stadium will materialize, who knows? It's heading towards 20 years, but they're renovating it and it does look good for heading towards 20 years. It's definitely not going to be decrepit when it's replaced. It might be an issue of getting two levels of luxury boxes in there. And I do think they should expand the capacity to 75-80k seats.

    I'm guessing about 15 years. It's an expensive game, but as more new stadiums come online, only older stadiums that have a ton of history and can take major renovations onsite (Lombardi/Soldier Field come to mind) will remain. And we don't need to forget that the purpose of M&T was to build very quickly and inexpensively to get the Ravens downtown to get more revenue to pay off the expenses of the Modell move.

    M&T is a great gameday experience and it's a good looking stadium, but it's not iconic either within itself or within the larger context of where it's located. I agree with the idea of building a stadium that adds to the cityscape from the outside, the way that OP@CY has. You don't have to break the bank to do it. Good design doesn't always equate to large expense.

    I hope they don't build something that's really unique and mindblowing within itself, but looks like something that dropped in from somewhere else like the city-owned Hilton.

    In the case of OP@CY, I think we'll see another 30 years or so of renovations at the least. It is indeed iconic and there will always be a push to preserve it as long as it's standing.
    Overall I agree with your post, but this year will be the 16th season in M&T, so it's not quite 20 years old yet. I agree with you that it's got at least another 15 years ahead of it, if not more. Also, M&T already has two levels of luxury suites. 100 level is lower, 200 level is club, 300 and 400 level are suites, and the 500 level is the upper deck. And it holds 71K plus now, so I don't see the major benefit of getting 4-9K more in there, or at least not enough to push for a major renovation or new stadium.
    Never get in a fight with a pig; you both get muddy, and the pig likes it...





  5. #65
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    Re: Over the Top Stadium designs

    Quote Originally Posted by esmd View Post
    Overall I agree with your post, but this year will be the 16th season in M&T, so it's not quite 20 years old yet. I agree with you that it's got at least another 15 years ahead of it, if not more. Also, M&T already has two levels of luxury suites. 100 level is lower, 200 level is club, 300 and 400 level are suites, and the 500 level is the upper deck. And it holds 71K plus now, so I don't see the major benefit of getting 4-9K more in there, or at least not enough to push for a major renovation or new stadium.
    You're right. I should have put having suites sort of all the way around the whole stadium like the Georgia Dome or Lucas Oil.

    I think they'll take a look at the PSL list, which is, and as I understand, has been capped at 3k fans since the beginning, as I understand, with many more sort of unofficially interested in PSLs, if not gameday tickets. If Ravens attendance drops sometime in the next few years, they wouldn't do it, but if they can make more money without sacrificing the gameday experience, why not? Bisch isn't trying to seed his kids' trust funds with the money the team makes, but more revenue helps all around.

    If they build a new building from scratch, I expect them to increase the seating capacity. Not dramatically like FedEX, but something closer to Metlife Stadium. Probably we'd see more of the premium ground level and club-type seats.

    If they renovate and expand, I have no clue. I don't really know what they could do.

    But again, it has at least another 15+ years or so to go. We'll see how things shake out on the stadium front by then with the Niners new stadium and any other new ones that open. Bisch might have to expand the suites and a few more other seats to keep pace in revenue.
    ---

    Baltimore Colts (AAFC): 1947-1950
    Baltimore Colts (NFL): 1953-1984
    Baltimore Stars (USFL): 1985
    Baltimore Colts/Stallions (CFL): 1994-1995
    Baltimore Ravens (NFL): 1996-Present




  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by esmd View Post
    Overall I agree with your post, but this year will be the 16th season in M&T, so it's not quite 20 years old yet. I agree with you that it's got at least another 15 years ahead of it, if not more. Also, M&T already has two levels of luxury suites. 100 level is lower, 200 level is club, 300 and 400 level are suites, and the 500 level is the upper deck. And it holds 71K plus now, so I don't see the major benefit of getting 4-9K more in there, or at least not enough to push for a major renovation or new stadium.
    This isn't about necessity or adequacy of the current stadium.

    It's about keeping up with current trends, technology and market demand.

    Bisciotti already sees this, which is why he's putting it everyone's ears now.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  7. #67
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    Re: Over the Top Stadium designs

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    This isn't about necessity or adequacy of the current stadium.

    It's about keeping up with current trends, technology and market demand.

    Bisciotti already sees this, which is why he's putting it everyone's ears now.
    Sorry, I'm not buying what you're selling. They can keep up just fine with M&T. And other than their stated desire to update M&T to keep it current (like they did a few years back and like they're doing this year), I've seen nothing from Bisciotti or Ravens officials about a extensive renovation or replacement. Quite frankly this strikes me as nothing more than some fans wanting to keep up with the Jones'.
    Never get in a fight with a pig; you both get muddy, and the pig likes it...





  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by esmd View Post
    Sorry, I'm not buying what you're selling. They can keep up just fine with M&T. And other than their stated desire to update M&T to keep it current (like they did a few years back and like they're doing this year), I've seen nothing from Bisciotti or Ravens officials about a extensive renovation or replacement. Quite frankly this strikes me as nothing more than some fans wanting to keep up with the Jones'.
    I'm not selling anything.

    The owner, however, is starting to. And I agree.

    Your beef is with him. I'll look for the quotes later but he's been rumbling a bit about it. IIRC, we had a thread about it.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  9. #69
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    Re: Over the Top Stadium designs

    Quote Originally Posted by Strange Bru View Post
    HIH, Dan Snyder has already been trying to get a new stadium built where RFK is for the past few years. He wants the Redskins to play in DC.
    I hadn't seen this. Not doubting it, but it really surprises me. JKC built that pit of a stadium with his own money. It's the biggest reason the Slurs are one of the highest-value franchises. Seems to me that would be an awfully expensive asset to give up. It's not like you can sell it.
    "Leave. Your. Mark."




  10. #70

    Re: Over the Top Stadium designs

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    This isn't about necessity or adequacy of the current stadium.

    It's about keeping up with current trends, technology and market demand.

    Bisciotti already sees this, which is why he's putting it everyone's ears now.
    For once, I am in agreement with Houston Raven. I believe that our stadium would be just fine if a removable roof and escalators or moving sidewalks were added, the upper concourses widened (yes, it can be done, such as Miami and KC ), adding a true out-of-town scoreboard w/o fantasy stats distractions, plus restrooms, concessions and tailgating facilities improved. Additional seating capacity could be made by enclosing the 200-400 levels on either side of the video boards. With such improvements, the stadium should be good for another 50-100 years.
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




  11. #71

    Re: Over the Top Stadium designs

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    I agree with everything you stated about the Georgia Dome. Also, replacing the perfectly fine Metrodome & RCA Dome & Texas Stadium & Kingdome. And likely major overhaul or replacement of the St Louis stadium. All were good stadiums for watching football, comfortable, easy access. Sure, there were nit-picks that could be made about them, but none were dumps like our Memorial Stadium or Cleveland's stadium, or newer but poor sightlines found in the doughnut shaped stadiums of the 60s & 70s in Philly, DC, Cincy, Pitt, St. Louis etc.

    However, I believe there will be some movement towards a major overhaul or replacement sooner than your 2023 prediction. The Ravens have always tried to stay in the middle if the pack. Ticket prices for example. Bisciotti will feel pressure when Snyder overhauls the Landover Stadium or builds a new one in DC. The cosmetic changes being made to our stadium now are too little to keep up with the major stadium upgrades being made elsewhere.
    I'm sorry, but those stadiums were truly horrendous. As someone who has been to many stadiums, those two were easily the worst of the bunch.




  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by baltimorebred View Post
    I'm sorry, but those stadiums were truly horrendous. As someone who has been to many stadiums, those two were easily the worst of the bunch.
    T is a fan of any Dome.


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    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




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