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  1. #31
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    Re: Over the Top Stadium designs



    Quote Originally Posted by RavenScallywag View Post
    Focus on the football, not the aesthetics.
    Um...no.

    For maybe 100 hours a year, the stadium will be used for its intended purpose (football or some other major event).

    The other 8,660 hours each year, its primary function is to be part of the cityscape.

    If they use a billion dollars (of taxpayer money, most likely, including mine as a B'More resident) to build a new stadium, I damn well expect it to be iconic--something that screams

    BALTIMORE!
    BEST F'IN' CITY IN THE MEGAVERSE
    & Home Of The
    BEST F'IN' NFL FRANCHISE IN HISTORY,
    bitchez!

    to everyone who sees it from any angle. (Whether or not it's strictly true.)

    Fortunately I have a nephew who by the time they get around to putting out the RFP will be the best f'in' architect in the megaverse (if he isn't already). I'll ask him to get on it as soon as he passes his boards...




  2. #32
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    I've been to several stadiums and I think Baltimore still has one of the best. Agree that the elements give them an advantage so no roof.

    Atlanta stadium like Jerryworld, hosts many events not related to NFL so I understand a roof there
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  3. #33
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    Re: Over the Top Stadium designs

    Quote Originally Posted by lobachevsky View Post
    Um...no.

    For maybe 100 hours a year, the stadium will be used for its intended purpose (football or some other major event).

    The other 8,660 hours each year, its primary function is to be part of the cityscape.

    If they use a billion dollars (of taxpayer money, most likely, including mine as a B'More resident) to build a new stadium, I damn well expect it to be iconic--something that screams

    BALTIMORE!
    BEST F'IN' CITY IN THE MEGAVERSE
    & Home Of The
    BEST F'IN' NFL FRANCHISE IN HISTORY,
    bitchez!

    to everyone who sees it from any angle. (Whether or not it's strictly true.)

    Fortunately I have a nephew who by the time they get around to putting out the RFP will be the best f'in' architect in the megaverse (if he isn't already). I'll ask him to get on it as soon as he passes his boards...
    Fine, but Baltimore is not an extravagant town. Honestly, if something like either of those were put in here...it'd just look weird. It wouldn't fit with our skyline or city look.

    I'm not saying we should just use a cookie cutter stadium, but I think we stay above par in the "stadium" arena (pun not intended) by focusing on the "guts" in our modifications/upgrades. Make what's INSIDE the stadium amazing. Better concessions, better club boxes, better seats, etc. The only big upgrade I can think of that would require major re-work of the stadium is putting in escalators.

    In the next 20-30 years, we could be looking at a rebuild (though, I have no idea how they'd do it, considering that the casino is going in right next to the stadium), but I disagree that in 5 years, we'll be a bottom tier stadium. Bisciotti is making the adjustments inside to keep the fan experience top notch.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    If you have a competitive team, you will draw people. See Pittsburgh, for example. Or New England (which has a very "cookie cutter stadium" out in the middle of nowhere). I agree that your stadium has to be a revenue enhancer, not a drain, but that is certainly not the case with M&T Bank
    Those stadia make my point. Yes, right now they draw. But in 5-10 years when a slew of other teams have modernized (and a bunch are coming) they too will feel the pressure.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    I agree that new stadiums are in a way being built to be the draw themselves, but why do the Ravens need to worry about that if they are already drawing people? And besides, if Jerry-world is the first, and maybe Atlanta will be the second...at what point do you reach diminishing returns on drawing people to an "iconic" stadium that is not so "iconic" if it is #10 behind 9 other new "iconic" stadiums.
    The competition is forcing the issue not the draw per se.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    5 years? I would think you would have to start looking at a replacement stadium in about 20 years. I am sure the Ravens have thought about this and would not be pouring money into M&T Bank if they thought it was going away in 5 years.
    IIRC, Bisciotti has already made mention of a new / retrofitted stadium. I'm willing to bet his time table is in that same 5-10 year window I mentioned.
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  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    If you have a competitive team, you will draw people. See Pittsburgh, for example. Or New England (which has a very "cookie cutter stadium" out in the middle of nowhere). I agree that your stadium has to be a revenue enhancer, not a drain, but that is certainly not the case with M&T Bank

    I agree that new stadiums are in a way being built to be the draw themselves, but why do the Ravens need to worry about that if they are already drawing people? And besides, if Jerry-world is the first, and maybe Atlanta will be the second...at what point do you reach diminishing returns on drawing people to an "iconic" stadium that is not so "iconic" if it is #10 behind 9 other new "iconic" stadiums.

    5 years? I would think you would have to start looking at a replacement stadium in about 20 years. I am sure the Ravens have thought about this and would not be pouring money into M&T Bank if they thought it was going away in 5 years.
    It's not about just drawing in people, it's about squeezing in as many premium (club and suites) as possible...those are the money making seats, not the bowl and upper deck for the great unwashed.

    It's also about being able to host as many other money making events as possible as I am pretty sure the team makes a percentage of revenue every time the stadium is used.

    The facts of the matter is that the average lifespan of these stadiums is about 25-30 years...and we are 15 years into M&T. It will either go through major renovations or the prospect of replacement will be brought up in the next decade or so.


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    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  6. #36

    Re: Over the Top Stadium designs

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Those stadia make my point. Yes, right now they draw. But in 5-10 years when a slew of other teams have modernized (and a bunch are coming) they too will feel the pressure.
    So are you saying that fans in Pittsburgh, New England and Baltimore, that are currently filling those stadiums will be drawn to the other stadiums (more than the one-time-only visit)?




  7. #37
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    Re: Over the Top Stadium designs

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    It's not about just drawing in people, it's about squeezing in as many premium (club and suites) as possible...those are the money making seats, not the bowl and upper deck for the great unwashed.

    It's also about being able to host as many other money making events as possible as I am pretty sure the team makes a percentage of revenue every time the stadium is used.

    The facts of the matter is that the average lifespan of these stadiums is about 25-30 years...and we are 15 years into M&T. It will either go through major renovations or the prospect of replacement will be brought up in the next decade or so.


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    Out of curiosity how long is the lease on M&T with the Ravens as of today.

    That number will have a lot to do with this. I would never expect Steve B to use the moving out of Maryland threat but the logical time for this to really start becoming a hot topic would seem to be around the time the lease comes due if its more than say 5yrs out. My guess is that the current stadium gets a massive face lift that improves the aesthetics and increases the number of suites/boxes.
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  8. #38

    Re: Over the Top Stadium designs

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    It's not about just drawing in people, it's about squeezing in as many premium (club and suites) as possible...those are the money making seats, not the bowl and upper deck for the great unwashed.
    I agree, but I think M&T has a decent stock of club-level and suite-level seats. As long as the team is competitive, and they can charge the premium prices, they will generate adequate revenue.

    It's also about being able to host as many other money making events as possible as I am pretty sure the team makes a percentage of revenue every time the stadium is used.
    In general, I would agree. But I disagree that Baltimore would be the destination-city that perhaps some are assuming. You are not going to out-compete New Orleans, Miami, Phoenix and Atlanta (or even San Diego with it's "cookie cutter stadium") for Super Bowls, Finals Fours, etc. Nor for that matter are you going to out-compete the midget 35 miles down the road that is probably already in this game.

    The facts of the matter is that the average lifespan of these stadiums is about 25-30 years...and we are 15 years into M&T. It will either go through major renovations or the prospect of replacement will be brought up in the next decade or so.
    The stadiums that are being replaced are the ones that were built before the early 90s and the concept of suite and luxury boxes. As long as a stadium has enough stock of those, and it creates the draw with a competitive team, it should be adequate for another 20 or so years, I would expect.
    Last edited by JohnBKistler; 05-03-2013 at 10:34 AM.




  9. #39
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    Re: Over the Top Stadium designs

    They're spending a bunch of money on renovations to the concourses at M&T over the next 2 years. Lower level and club will be done by this season. Upper level by 2014. The stadium is only 15 years old. It's not going anywhere for awhile.

    And I don't think you'll ever see a dome/retractable roof stadium in Baltimore. Or anywhere else in the AFC North for that matter.




  10. #40

    Re: Over the Top Stadium designs

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    The same reasons businesses must reinvest in infrastructure so too do NFL teams need to do the same.

    If your competition is modernizing and you're not, it's only a matter of time before its a profit drain. There are exceptions. Iconic stadia such as Green Bay, Fenway, Wrigley, etc can get away with it because the stadium itself is a draw.

    The Vault, while adequate now, is not a unique / iconic place that in of itself draws people. In 5-10 years, it's going to be a bottom tier stadium.
    And yet I bet it still sells out all it's home games as long as the team continues to be competitive...




  11. #41

    Re: Over the Top Stadium designs

    Quote Originally Posted by Losac View Post
    And I don't think you'll ever see a dome/retractable roof stadium in Baltimore. Or anywhere else in the AFC North for that matter.
    God I hope not.




  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjones73 View Post
    And yet I bet it still sells out all it's home games as long as the team continues to be competitive...
    Agreed.

    But sells outs or lack thereof won't be the reason the team will want a new stadium or ask for retrofitting.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  13. #43

    Re: Over the Top Stadium designs

    As mentioned above, with the current rehab project underway, and not expected to be finished much before the start of NEXT SEASON, I think 5 years out is way off HR. I think a new stadium has to be more then 10 years out.




  14. #44
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    Re: Over the Top Stadium designs

    That abomination in Raljon opened the year before ours. Anybody who is unhappy at M&T should just take the trek down 95. You'll fall back in love with your home stadium. No way M&T gets replaced before FedEx does.
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  15. #45

    Re: Over the Top Stadium designs

    HIH, Dan Snyder has already been trying to get a new stadium built where RFK is for the past few years. He wants the Redskins to play in DC.


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