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Thread: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft
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Joe Flacco has a long way to go IMHO before HOF can be brought up.
It isn't fair to compare him to Ben and Eli as he is 3-4 years behind their careers.
If nothing else, Joe does not have anywhere near the national respect...and the votes are by national writers.
He needs to make numerous Pro Bowls, and win another championship before I think anyone outside of homers takes his candidacy seriously.
Rice? There may be a case if he can keep this up for another 3 or 4 years of similar work.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HDAlthough Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.
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05-01-2013, 11:00 PM #14Four-eyed Raven
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Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft
The Super Bowl MVP is transformative for a QB, in terms of national respect. The conversation about Eli changed after his SB (and more so after his second). I think we'll be surprised to hear the language announcers use in talking about Joe, this season.
I agree that Joe needs to do more to get into the Hall. But not different things; just more of the same. (A lot more of the same ;-)
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You still have multiple bozo analysts on NFL network knocking him as we'll as a player he just beat in the Super Bowl...saying he is a borderline top 10 QB.
Remember, people still didn't really respect Eli either until after his second Super Bowl.
One playoff run...while it definitely helped, it is not putting him in HOF discussions.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HDAlthough Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.
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Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft
Flacco just needs to keep winning. His regular season record so far is an astounding 54-26 @ .675 winning%. Through just 5 years, he is already #77 all time for regular season wins. Another 50 wins and he is in the top 10.
Flacco's stellar 9-4 playoff record also puts him amongst the greats. He is tied for 10th most playoff wins amongst QB's alltime. And that is only through 5 years. He has as many playoff wins as Peyton Manning, Kurt Warner, and Jim Kelly. More wins than Steve Young, Marino, and Eli. I left out the old schoolers since there weren't as many playoff games back then (Unitas won 6). Flacco has almost twice as many playoff wins as Brees and Rodgers, who have 5 each.
Seeing as how Flacco doesn't play in a pass first offense, and maybe never will, his career will likely be judged on how many games he wins. By that measure, he is definitely off to a HOF start.
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You know as well as I do that a significant chunk of national media and other fans attribute much of that winning percentage to the defense and Ray Rice.
No, it isn't fair, but Joe is going to have to put up better regular season numbers for those people to give him that HOF respect.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HDAlthough Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.
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Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft
They do now, but I think if Joe keeps it up for the next 5-10 years, peoples opinions will change.
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Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.
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Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft
I agree with woodlawn, Flacco is still for whatever reason disliked by a lot of pundits, he's going t0o have to make a few pro bowls and have some nice statistical seasons to make it in. Ray Rice like I said will never be the best single back in the NFL mainly due to his lack of size, but because he's been so consistent with production and continues that way for the duration of his contract, I can easily see him making it.
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05-02-2013, 04:52 AM #21Legendary RSR Poster
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I think RiW is spot on here.
Because of his style of play, Flacco has the daunting task of not only winning but changing media perception. It's sports writers that vote for the HoF and once a narrative on a player sets in, it's tough to shake. He's on the right track though. It's just going to take a lot more than one ring to do it.
As for Rice, he has a lot more to prove than Joe. His position has become saturated with talent and his playoff record as a whole is not very impressive, his monster game in NEa few years ago not withstanding.
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05-02-2013, 06:43 AM #22
Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft
i doubt you could find any team in the nfl that would take a prime flacco or prime rice over a prime ray or prime ogden....in all honesty its not even close
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Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft
He carried the Ravens on his back during the playoffs... Where were you? Ray Rice was sucking it up and the Ravens 17th ranked defense gave up 88 postseason points, the most points allowed by a Super Bowl winning team in NFL history. They also gave up the most yards. Yet that didn't matter. The Ravens won anyways because of Joe Flacco's playoff run which was the second greatest playoff run in nfl history.
Hell, Flacco over the past three YEARS has carried his team on his back in the playoffs. With an 18-2 TD/INT ratio, and that SHOULD be 20-2 if Lee Evans and Boldin didn't let him down. That is the second best 3 year span in NFL history, second to only Joe Montana's 88-90 stretch where he had a 22-3 ratio.
Flacco's last three years he's performed better in the playoffs than players like Brady, Peyton, and Roethlisberger have played if you took their three BEST playoff years and combined them.
This is why it's so funny that Flacco has to "do it again" to be considered an elite quarterback. If Flacco can do something like this again, he'll cement himself as the second greatest playoff quarterback in NFL history.
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Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft
Blasphemy. When Flacco plays here for 17 years, and is in the argument for greatest football player ever, maybe. But to put perspective on it, as GREAT as the mighty Peyton Manning is/was to the Colts, Johnny Unitas is still 'the man' as far as the Colts franchise goes.
Ray Lewis ~ BAR NONE
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